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Read What Else Hobby Lobby Forces On Employees

Read What Else Hobby Lobby Forces On Employees

Everyone is familiar with the current Supreme Court case involving the craft store giant, but there are many things about Hobby Lobby that are not being covered by the mainstream media. For example, did you know Hobby Lobby sets its own minimum wage, which currently exceeds the national by 93%? The facts covered here will shock you.

With the company being regularly vilified in the news due to their religious views and current conflict with the Affordable Care Act mandate for birth control, it’s time to set the record straight and give this company some of the positive publicity it deserves. In the brief article to follow are some details about Hobby Lobby and its founders that you probably haven’t heard on the news.

First, while the media continuously states Hobby Lobby does not want to offer birth control through its insurance plan, this is completely inaccurate. As previously reported, the company already covers 16 of the mandated 20 drugs under Obamacare. The controversy started when Hobby Lobby owners claimed it would be a “violation of conscience” to provide the remaining 4 drugs that cause “end of life” rather than standard contraception. Hobby Lobby doesn’t object to covering all contraception, only the emergency contraceptive pills Plan B and Ella and intrauterine devices (IUDs), which they believe are abortifacients. These abortifacient drugs are not what would typically come to mind when most people hear the words “birth control.”

What’s most amusing about the case and protests are that those most up in arms about Hobby Lobby contesting the mandate are not their employees. Hobby Lobby was founded by David Green on August 3, 1972, and as of August 2012 the chain has 561 stores nationwide. The Green’s founded and grew the company on Christian principles, which have been long standing. These principles were not an issue until the Obamacare mandate. This is not a movement of protest by the employees, as evidenced by the video at the end of this article. As a matter of fact, at this time the company has 4 out of 5 stars for employee satisfaction on indeed.com.

While reading the reviews on indeed.com, you will find that some of the benefits of employment at Hobby Lobby cited by their employees are those that are in place due to the Green’s Christian principles, such as Sunday’s off. The Green family are unarguably devout Christians who run the company based on biblical principles. Besides closing their stores on Sundays, other principles include starting staff meetings with Bible readings, paying above minimum wage, and using a Christian-based mediation practice to resolve employee disputes. With these practices and policies in place and long standing, the Christian-based values that the company was founded on and continues to run on are no secret to the employees, who choose to work there.

Let’s touch on the pay Hobby Lobby offers. While the news has been inundated with Hobby Lobby’s issue with the “birth control” mandate, why wasn’t their recent hike in wages equally reported? I think it would surprise most to know that in 2013, Hobby Lobby raised their minimum wage for full-time employees to $14. According to Charisma News in 2013:

Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc ….  announced … a minimum-wage increase to $14 per hour for full-time hourly employees … The company also announced a minimum wage increase for all part-time employees to $9.50 per hour.

This is the fifth year in a row that the company has raised wages for full-time hourly employees, who earned a minimum of $13 per hour in 2012. It’s the fourth year in a row for the company to increase the minimum wage for its part-time hourly employees, up from a minimum of $9 in 2012.

This increase for full-time hourly and part-time hourly employees will raise the pay of more than 17,726 employees nationwide. Hobby Lobby’s new minimum wage for full-time hourly employees is 93 percent above the national minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.

In 2013, Hobby Lobby projects continued growth and plans to open 33 additional stores, which will create an additional 1,200 jobs across the country.

It’s safe to say that Hobby Lobby employees, who made 93% above the minimum wage paid at similar jobs would be able to afford to pay for the abortifacient drugs with the generous pay they receive should that need and desire arise for an individual. Arguably, Hobby  Lobby gives their employees 93% more choices by providing them with stellar pay that they can spend as they choose.

Another interesting fact about the Greens is that they are even attempting to build a Museum of the Bible in Washington, DC. The Green Collection, assembled by the Green family, is the world’s largest private collection of rare biblical texts and artifacts. It is a compilation of more than 40,000 biblical antiquities currently featured via the worldwide traveling exhibition Passages and will eventually form the core of a permanent, national, non-sectarian Bible museum in Washington, D.C. This is just more evidence of the Green’s generosity and passion for the Word of God. Instead of keeping the private collection to themselves, they are making attempts to share it with the world.

The video below is evidence of the unfair propaganda that is being spread by the left. It’s time to set the record straight and share these facts that the left don’t want you to know. Give Hobby Lobby the publicity it deserves by making its contributions to its employees and community known through sharing this article.

While those in the video would have you believe corporations are not people (persons), under US Code they are:

26 U.S. Code § 7701

1) Person

The term “person” shall be construed to mean and include an individual, a trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation.”

It’s time to stop this kind of misinformation.  Don’t forget to share!

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by RevContent
About Christy Lee Parker (420 Articles)
Christy Parker is a Christian conservative wife, mother, writer, and business owner. After almost 20 years in healthcare, she retired from the field to pursue what she felt was her calling. With the support of her husband, Corey Barrow, founder of Mad World News, she successfully started her own business and a rewarding career in Internet journalism. She's passionate about her faith, traditional Christian values, family, and the Second Amendment. Please take a look at some of her other articles and follow her using the social media links below.

554 Comments on Read What Else Hobby Lobby Forces On Employees

  1. I would agree with this except for the corporations are people part. Citizens United was a wrong ruling. Individuals who run a company have 1st Amendment rights but it has nothing to do with being a corporation. The fact that we recognized corporations as people allows CEOs to get out of a scandal by having the corporate entity take the fall.

  2. Allen Thomas // March 30, 2014 at 9:57 am //

    And I might agree with BDub if Unions were free to extort an almost limitless amount money from its members to support parties, polices, and politicians that don’t represent there views. If Labor can do this, then Management (corporations) should be afforded the same opportunity. Citizens United is vilified by the left because it helped level the financial playing field. And while Unions still support and help corrupt the political process through extortion, Corporations are accountable to its board of directors, shareholders, and consumers. No one is hoisted by the ankles and shaken down by force to fess up donations.

  3. Erik Christensen // March 30, 2014 at 4:47 pm //

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7701

    U.S. Code› Title 26 › Subtitle F › Chapter 79 › § 7701

    26 U.S. Code § 7701 – Definitions

    Current through Pub. L. 113-86, except 113-79. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    US Code

    Notes

    Updates

    prev | NEXT(a) When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof—

    (1) Person

    The term “person” shall be construed to mean and include an individual, a trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation.

    It doesn’t matter if you agree with it or not.. the law is the law

  4. Actually, the Hobby Lobby in my city pays $12 for part time and $14 for full time…so does Chick-fil-A…

  5. Wendy Saddler // March 30, 2014 at 9:50 pm //

    I am hearing ugly rumors that this company gets their materials from China. Can someone please explain this to me??

  6. Carla Stacy Trussell // March 31, 2014 at 12:32 am //

    and your point? – obama gets all our money from china

  7. Jamie Lant // March 31, 2014 at 2:13 am //

    So am I right in assuming they wouldn’t hire an Atheist? Isn’t that discrimination based on religious beliefs?

  8. If an atheist wants to work their and met their job description requirements, they would hire them. Just because they are a Christian owned business does not mean that they only hire Christians.

  9. TRUTH What the lying obama bootlicking media wont report

  10. Mazzy Black // March 31, 2014 at 8:11 am //

    The point would be that China has public health care, including publicly funded abortions, so this is a contradiction in Hobby Lobby’s supposedly Christian stance.

  11. Leo Allseitz // March 31, 2014 at 9:38 am //

    Its a tax code thing, if you don’t like it, have your rep change the law. What part of that don’t you understand?

  12. Texas ParentsCare // March 31, 2014 at 11:31 am //

    Great article but wouldn’t it be 193% of minimum wage? At 93% of minimum wage it would be $6.65! They are paying way above that. The article needs to be corrected.

  13. Liz Bernstein // March 31, 2014 at 12:06 pm //

    It says exceeds the national by 93%, not 93% of the national.

  14. Almost everything you buy has parts and materials made in foreign countries. If you want to be nitpicky about this then you support all kinds of evils by providing other people who can be doing things that you are against.

    Or you could look at how China has a rising middle class because of increased economic activity from foreign trade, in which case Hobby Lobby is doing the Christian thing and supporting people less fortunate, even though they have different beliefs.

  15. Wendy Saddler // March 31, 2014 at 12:48 pm //

    Carla, I am trying to find out IF this is true or not. I don’t but it myself, so I am only trying to see if there is evidence to contradict this. I would greatly appreciate you quitting the nasty tone.

  16. Wendy Saddler // March 31, 2014 at 12:49 pm //

    TY Kholt.

  17. It’s not “contraceptives” it is a company being forced to fund ABORTIONS …what part of that is lost to you? Our Reps and the people of the nation DID vote against it… but Obama’s administration forced Obamacare on American’s against their votes. Guess what… it’s NOT free…and MORE people are without insurance as a result of it. You and your ignorant cohorts fail to see that you are choosing slavery to a government that does not care if you live or die… not even if children live or die.

  18. Actually, the medications they are refusing to fund on the basis of their religious beliefs do not cause abortions. They prevent fertilization, thus not ending but preventing a life. This is a medical fact. The article cleverly furthers this deception by stating that Hobby Lobby objects to funding methods they “believe” are abortifacients. So their beliefs (not religious beliefs) don’t have to be scientifically accurate to support their position.

  19. Actually, The TRUTH is that the medications they are refusing to fund on the basis of their religious beliefs do not cause abortions. They prevent fertilization, thus not ending but preventing a life. This is a medical fact. The article cleverly furthers this deception by stating that Hobby Lobby objects to funding methods they “believe” are abortifacients. So their beliefs (not religious beliefs) don’t have to be scientifically accurate to support their position. Truth the conservative media won’t report.

  20. I fail to see what their minimum wage has to do with anything. Maybe they pay more because they are trying to attract and retain a specialized work force, maybe they are doing it because they are christian and believe it is the right thing. Either way, that doesn’t negate the fact that they are forcing their religious beliefs on their employees through their bible readings and selection of what type of medication they will allow their employees to take. Could you imagine the outrage if the owner was muslim and forced his employees to read the Koran prior to starting work and forbade them from eating pork?

  21. HappyCatholic // March 31, 2014 at 8:23 pm //

    They don’t prevent fertilization they prevent implantation. Which is why they are abortifacients. Read the information sheet that comes with the pills, it’s very clear on that fact.

  22. You’re not pregnant until implantation takes place so they are not abortifacients.

  23. You’re not pregnant until implantation takes place so they are not abortifacients.

  24. The employee chose to work for HL. If they don’t agree with their procedures and policies, they can surely choose to resign. Not that hard.. If you want to eat pork and not read the koran, don’t work for a Muslim that doesn’t allow the consumption of pork and requires you read the koran.

  25. Jeff Tarpley Rescue // March 31, 2014 at 9:14 pm //

    I read “above minimum wage” repeated. What wage are they paying? Is it a secrete? Should everyone quit their jobs and flock to Hobby Lobby? JTR

  26. Nobody can fix the whole world. We need to fix what we can, where we are. It is not Hobby Lobby’s responsibility to fix China.

  27. I think Hobby Lobby pays great but when I applied I was told I could make for part time almost $8 an hour with my 10+ years of experience. I also think the insurance thru this job should pay for things like the IUD as some people like me do not use it for birth control as I am abstain from sex. People like me use it for the hormone it releases for a medical condition. People seem to not think about that kind of thing when they say no coverage for certain things due to some religious beliefs.

  28. Shelley Hatcher // March 31, 2014 at 10:01 pm //

    But this is their company and this is how they choose to run it! If you have a problem with it seek employment elsewhere its that simple!

  29. Lance Crabtree // March 31, 2014 at 10:03 pm //

    Did you read the article or did you just leave a comment? The article clearly says they pay full time employees a min of $14.00 an hour and part timers $9.50

  30. Mazzy Black // March 31, 2014 at 10:09 pm //

    Setting aside the fact that you consider China “less fortunate” than the US (China is currently one of the richest countries in the world), the only point I was making was to answer your question to the previous commenter of “what’s your point?”

    I’d have to assume their point was just that – that Hobby Lobby gets goods from China, China funds actual abortions, not a form of contraceptive, and Hobby Lobby has no qualms
    about that.

    Now, as far as my own views, I simply think it’s ridiculous because the whole idea of national health care is that people
    who normally couldn’t get decent health care would get the SAME health care that everyone else can get. I’m for single-payer. I’m for the national health care that Obama actually based on Romney’s state health care put in place in Massachusetts. I couldn’t care less about Hobby Lobby’s views other than to say that it’s utterly ridiculous that they seem to think they can deny people their protections under the US governance. Abortion is legal. Full stop. It’s been legal for half a century now. No entity should be able to deny what is legal and protected as legal under our governing agencies, and picking apart this health care plan so this guy only allows x, y, and z, and this other guy allows x and y but not z, and still another only allows y but not x or z, goes against the very fabric of this national health care system. That is my problem with it. I don’t care if you believe in a man in the sky or the flying spaghetti monster because both are irrelevant to the situation.

    Besides all that, the Supreme Court already heard a case in which an entity wanted to go against the Fed due to religion and Justice Scalia shot it down, stating specifically that religion doesn’t trump law (paraphrased of course) in the case of a Native American stating that peyote is part of his religion and therefore supersedes our drug laws due to his religious protections was false and law stands over religion. Thus, in this case, by previous precedent, the same should hold true.

  31. Short answer to your first question? No, you’re wrong. Assumptions can bite you in the rear.

  32. Mazzy Black // March 31, 2014 at 10:15 pm //

    It’s not Hobby Lobby’s responsibility to dictate what is legally protected and provided to US citizens by the government either. And that’s the whole point.

  33. vicki8881 // March 31, 2014 at 10:29 pm //

    Health insurance does not equal health care.

  34. The point is, you shouldn’t have to seek employment somewhere else. The owner of Hobby Lobby has the right to practice his religion. I have a right to live free from religious prosecution. He can read his bible at home or in church or anywhere he damn well pleases. But forcing the workforce to take part in these readings is akin to religious prosecution.

  35. the Christian hating media lie about Hobby lobby – what a shock and awe !

  36. Mazzy Black // March 31, 2014 at 11:08 pm //

    True, and an interesting discussion to have, but has no bearing on this conversation. Point stands.

  37. vicki8881 // March 31, 2014 at 11:17 pm //

    Of course it does. You, yourself mentioned “health care” at least four times in the above post. Maybe you should have said health insurance instead and then my post wouldn’t have had any bearing. Point stands.

  38. Nancy Moran // March 31, 2014 at 11:29 pm //

    except that the drugs they think cause abortion doesn’t. plan b, ella, and others simply make the uterus an unkind place for the fertilized egg to implant. the rhythm method works the same way, and fertilized eggs fail to implant on that method, too.

  39. And the Brad saga continues.

  40. Nancy Moran // March 31, 2014 at 11:31 pm //

    so does the rhythm method, which most evangelicals support. they prevent implantation because they make the uterine lining too thin. same thing happens when you use the rhythm method.

  41. Nancy Moran // March 31, 2014 at 11:32 pm //

    then why support abortion for chinese workers and not contraception for american ones????

  42. Ned Carter // April 1, 2014 at 12:08 am //

    Apparently the workers at hobby lobby should be happy that their employer pays more than the bare minimum, and should do as they are told because of this OH SO GENEROUS amount they are given. Let’s not actually think about what the writer is saying. 14.00 an hour, you are making TWICE what all those people who cannot afford food are making. You should be able to feed yourselves and almost cover rent now. I mean, full time employees making 19,000 a year! That’s living high on the hog. You should have tons of money for that IUD ($500) or plan B (emergency, have to have within 3 days $50 to $70). I am sure you have lots of cash left over once someone bothers to DO THE MATH.

  43. Bryar Douglas // April 1, 2014 at 12:08 am //

    Omfg.
    In America, you have the right to your own religion. The founder of this company based his business on certain principles, as is his right. I know jobs are tight but .. how many of you honestly work at Hobby Lobby? If you don’t like the way things are ran, as a free American, you are capable of going somewhere else. Sure you could see it as the CEO pushing his beliefs on his employees, but this is HIS business that HE created and now people like you are trying to say that he can’t run his business the way he wants to. It’s not hurting anyone. Get your panties out of a knot and go work somewhere else if you don’t like Hobby Lobby. With the pay increase from working there, you could buy whatever contraceptives, birth control, or what the fuck ever you need. God, when did people get so fucking whiney and petty?

  44. actually the prevent ovulation so there is no egg to begin with

  45. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 1:28 am //

    You’re dead wrong. The intended effect of the morning-after pill is to flood the body with progesterone, making it *think* it’s pregnant – which stops eggs from being released by the ovaries.

    It does thin the uterine lining as well, which *could* reduce the chances of implantation in the event that fertilization does occur. But this is a side-effect of the drug, and not its primary function.

    If you don’t know this, it implies that your opinion is an uninformed one, and further implies that maybe you should do less posting on Internet forums, and more *reading* about these topics prior to chiming in.

  46. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 1:31 am //

    China holds less than 10% of all U.S. debt. It does hold more than any other foreign power, but still, it’s less than 10%.

  47. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 1:33 am //

    And if you’re black and disagree with your employers’ continuous use of the N-word, I guess you should just resign in that case too? No, there are various anti-discriminatory practices enshrined in U.S. law, and your employer’s right to be a bigot (or a fundie) don’t override your rights as an employee.

  48. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 1:36 am //

    His *corporation* is separate from him. Someone can sue the pants off of his corporation, but all of his personal assets are safe from such a suit. In other words, he is not his corporation; he is not liable for its debts and, in return, the corporation does not magically possess his religion.

  49. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 1:37 am //

    And if you’re black and disagree with your employers’ continuous use of
    the N-word, I guess you should just resign in that case too? No, there
    are various anti-discriminatory practices enshrined in U.S. law, and
    your employer’s right to be a bigot (or a fundie) don’t override your
    rights as an employee. The bottom line is that an employer *can’t* choose to run a company in a way that conflicts with the law.

  50. OhHolyDiver // April 1, 2014 at 1:48 am //

    Wrong

  51. OhHolyDiver // April 1, 2014 at 1:49 am //

    Wrong again

  52. OhHolyDiver // April 1, 2014 at 1:53 am //

    So.. The side effect is what this well informed person is talking about. Chime.

  53. OhHolyDiver // April 1, 2014 at 2:05 am //

    “Forcing…the selection of meds they will allow their employees to take” ? You are Ill-informed. They are allowed to take whatever medications they want. They just won’t pay for 4 out of 12 contraceptives.

  54. OhHolyDiver // April 1, 2014 at 2:06 am //

    Behavior does not equal race

  55. They are not trying to dictate ANYTHING to the entirety of the US. You may or may not have a particular faith and that is your business. To those of us that do, obeying God to the best of our ability far surpasses obeying Obama. Dictating that we, whether in our private lives or in our business lives do something that violates that faith is akin to telling us that we must violate the dictates of God…for many of us, that ain’t gonna happen. We still have freedom of Religion and we cherish that freedom.

  56. Im sure we can agree that a boss who continues to use the n word would not be nearly as successful as the people who own HL. Racism is rooted in hate and ignorance. Christian values are based on the Word of God and love. I’m sure their employees would rather them not be like wal-mart and pay less of an hourly wage but include all benefits of the ACA. I think the only bigots here are non-employees complaining when most of HL employees are fully satisfied.

  57. LobsterGator // April 1, 2014 at 12:16 pm //

    Having previously used an IUD, I take great umbrage by having an ARTS AND CRAFTS STORE determine that an IUD is an, “abortifacient.” They prevent pregnancy, they do not end pregnancy. I also do not believe any of the positives here as they are presented by a group that does not believe in science. Talk about spinning half truths!

  58. And the rest of us want freedom FROM your religion.

  59. LobsterGator // April 1, 2014 at 12:20 pm //

    You can’t argue science with parrots who avoid science at all costs.

  60. I’m a bigot because I don’t want a corporation to control a woman’s body?

  61. LobsterGator // April 1, 2014 at 12:21 pm //

    So do many things, it’s the body’s normal reaction to foreign objects in the uterus. It happens ALL THE TIME when you menstruate. SCIENCE: NOT JUST FOR ATHEISTS.

  62. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 12:41 pm //

    She specifically said, “They don’t prevent fertilization they prevent implantation.” This is patently incorrect. The primary way it works *is* by preventing fertilization, since fertilization cannot occur if ovulation doesn’t.

  63. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 12:49 pm //

    Nobody is asking Hobby Lobby to pay for contraception. What they are expecting Hobby Lobby to do is provide insurance that meets minimum standards. And one of those standards happen to be that *all* legally-recognized forms of birth control are covered.

  64. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 12:53 pm //

    The point is that the attitude of “if you don’t like it, find another job” is illegal in various cases. An employer can’t discriminate based on sex, race, or religion. An employer can’t pay below minimum wage. An employer can’t force you to work in unsafe conditions. And, as a result of the ACA, they can’t provide insurance that doesn’t meet minimum standards – and one of those standards happen to be that *all* legally-recognized forms of birth control are covered.

    You don’t have to “go find another job” if your employer does not satisfy the legal requirements for being a job provider; it’s up to your employer to correct himself, or face the appropriate penalties for having broken the law.

  65. lloydsev // April 1, 2014 at 12:58 pm //

    Yay so it does some things right, but will now destroy medical coverage for millions of Americans based on the company’s, but not the individual’s religious freedoms.

    CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE!

  66. And from their employee approval rate it’s seems not too many people wish to seek employment elsewhere. I guess HL is doing something right.

  67. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 1:23 pm //

    If HL wins their case, it won’t destroy medical coverage for millions. What kind of propaganda lies are you being told to come up with that logic?

  68. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 1:26 pm //

    IUD’s last 5 years and some up 7 to 10 years. The average worker may not last 5 years at HL. Should HL pay 500 for your IUD if you only work there two months and quit?

  69. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 1:29 pm //

    An IUD lasts upwards of 10 years. $500 for an IUD works out to $4.16 per month. Fairly cheap considering all the smartphones and cigarettes being bought up by low income workers.

  70. “Control a woman’s body” isn’t what they are doing. Disagreeing with requirements is what they are doing. Try not to make it sound like something it’s not.

  71. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 1:31 pm //

    I guess HL should take the expert advice from Nancy Moran regarding whether these things do or don’t cause abortion. It’s not like HL looked into what these drugs actually do before deciding on no coverage. Oh…wait…..

  72. Steve Kerr // April 1, 2014 at 1:33 pm //

    So what I want to know is, what percentage of HL’s workers are full-time employees? They could raise the full-time “minimum” to $50 but it means squat if most of their workers are part-time, especially the grunts at the store level.

  73. Tsk, tsk. Hobby Lobby invests money in Teva Pharmaceutical, which makes plan B pills and IUDs. They also invest their money in other companies which produce abortion drugs. They buy products from China, which has a bad record on abortion, child labor and many other human rights issues. Let’s face it. These people are frauds. They are giving Christianity a bad name.

  74. lloydsev // April 1, 2014 at 1:43 pm //

    So it won’t allow corporations to claim “religious freedom” and deny me coverage to things they don’t like?

    For instance, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t agree with blood transfusions, do they get to deny coverage for that like Hobby Lobby and birth control since it’s a sincere religious belief.

    How about Scientology owned businesses, do they get to with-hold psychiatric treatment since they believe as part of their religion that psychiatry is a fraud?

    How about Christian Scientists that believe, as a fundamental part of their religion, that all medical services are shams and that true piousness will cure you?

    Where do we draw the line on a corporations “religious freedom” that trumps the individuals?

  75. Allen, actually you are not completely correct here. A person may opt out of paying full union dues, and pay only for the portion that goes directly to pay for costs of union representation and is not used for political donations. So Citizens United did not ‘level the playing field.’ It up ended it.

  76. Interesting that these ‘religious objectors’ don’t object to investing their money in the companies which manufacture the very drugs they don’t want to pay for if their employees need them. I guess these religious people don’t mind profiting from them… Also, I guess they don’t mind all the children working in the factories in China manufacturing all the cheap crap Hobby Lobby pedals, or that by doing business with China they are supporting the oppressive, pro-abortion Chinese government which has numerous human rights issues. It’s all good to claim a ‘deeply held religious objection,’ but if one is going to make that claim, better first make sure one is really living that claim, in ALL aspects of life. Not just when it’s convenient or makes for good PR. Better watch who you are calling ignorant, cause you sound pretty ignorant to me.

  77. The older types prevent implantation, the newer ones prevent fertilization.

  78. Ouch! You hit the nail on the head. Here is one I like: “Science
    adjusts its views based on what is observed. Faith is the denial of
    observation so that belief can be preserved.” Tim Minchin

  79. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 2:09 pm //

    If HL wins this case, all it will do is establish the right in terms of Uncle Sam having to prove their compelling interest should override the right. This is the way it should happen.
    HL winning this case is not a simple “win button push” for others. Each case will have to stand on it’s own merit.

  80. It’s not as easy as saying “go somewhere else”. Unemployment is pretty high for unskilled workers, and they may not have another option for work. Anecdotal example: the only Hobby Lobby I’ve ever been to is located out in the Ohio Valley, where it is exceptionally difficult to get any job — let alone an unskilled one.

    But here’s the thing: HE created HIS business in the USA, a country regulated by laws and government policies, knowing that sometimes, regulations change. If he does not like the way things are run, he is capable of going somewhere else and starting a business in a different country. I’m sure there are plenty of countries with fewer regulations that would be more than happy to take such a large business investment. It would not hurt him to provide 4 more types of medication. He needs to accept that in this country we have rules, and if he wants to run his business here he needs to follow them regardless of his personal feelings.

  81. Karen Tuttle // April 1, 2014 at 2:22 pm //

    so they support people in China even though they have different beliefs but dont support the less fortunate folks that work in their stores? Good to know.

  82. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 2:23 pm //

    Apples and oranges. People have all kinds of reasons for staying at a job and, ultimately, the security that comes from having one will very often outweigh the risks of going someplace else.

    I’m sure HL is doing *something* right. But that doesn’t mean they’re doing *everything* right. Paying their employees above minimum wage (something good) doesn’t entitle them to break the law in other areas.

  83. Karen Tuttle // April 1, 2014 at 2:25 pm //

    without health insurance folks will not get proper healthcare.And so health insurance for most does indeed equal healthcare

  84. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 2:35 pm //

    Actually if he does not like the way things are run….he does NOT have to go somewhere else. He can go to court (which he did) and let them sort out the constitutionality of the new law (which is the way it’s supposed to work). He is only playing by the rules already set up.

  85. China may be rich, but it also has more people and many of the people work in worse conditions for worse pay, even children work in harsh conditions. So China may be well off but it’s people aren’t necessarily.

    It’s great that you like a single payer system. But why does the Hobby Lobby have to provide the insurance that the Government wants to provide? This is not the free healthcare that you want, it’s Government control. It also does nothing to combat the lack of doctors or the costs of medical research, which is the major problem.

  86. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 2:37 pm //

    A little oversimplification. Businesses (incorporated or not) don’t magically start out of thin air. Someone put their own hard work into it.

  87. Phoenix // April 1, 2014 at 2:49 pm //

    They prevent implantation without regard to the status (fertilized or not) of the egg. Indeed the odds of any of these methods ending a viable pregnancy are vanishingly small.

  88. Karen Tuttle // April 1, 2014 at 2:52 pm //

    Did you not read the versus in the bible that command you to obey your government leaders.Romans 13 1;7 Let every person be in subjection to the government authorities for there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God.Therefore those who resist authority has opposed the ordinance of God.How about 1Peter 2:13;17 Submit yourselves for the lords sake to every human institution. weather as to a king as the one in authority or to the governors as sent by him.There are many more, and that is the point here. As christians people tend to pick and choose what they want to follow and dictate their own beliefs while ignoring others.Your entire response to me violates the word of God.

  89. Karen Tuttle // April 1, 2014 at 3:04 pm //

    Yes, because it is the law and the employee may be there twenty years.The point is that it is the law and the employees are paying a premium for the insurance as well so HL is not really paying for it since they get tax breaks and subsidies that cover the portion they pay for employees benefits. I bet religion does not tell them to turn that money down.

  90. Karen Tuttle // April 1, 2014 at 3:14 pm //

    No i think they probably do as Nancy did and take the expert advice of the many Doctors and Scientist that have proven these drugs do not cause abortion.

  91. Karen Tuttle // April 1, 2014 at 3:21 pm //

    If HL wins this case it will set presidence for any other company to follow with there own case according to religion. It is a slippery slope.

  92. First, Hobby Lobby pays more than minimum. Second, regardless of whether you believe it or not, Hobby Lobby cares for their souls and whether or not they end up in heaven or hell. Third, birth control doesn’t cure disease or heal any injuries, it prevents the consequences of someone’s actions.

    Someone who has the time and energy to have sex isn’t as unfortunate as you think.

  93. Richie Rich // April 1, 2014 at 3:30 pm //

    Regardless of ANYTHING else…..They buy MOST of the cheap crap they sell from CHINA……Which is one of the most oppressive regimes in the world……..Which has MANDATORY Birth Control and Abortion regulations *
    “Family Planning statistics are usually considered state secrets.[4] However in 2008, there were an estimated 13 million abortions performed, and approximately 10 million abortion pills sold.[4] Induced abortions are more common in urban areas, where couples may only have one child.[5]
    In rural areas, it is permissible to have a second child if the first
    born is a girl and a “second-birth permit” is granted, costing
    approximately 4,000 yuan (US$600)”

    * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_China

    ♫ The MORE you Know ♫

  94. When are these religious retards going to learn that levonorgestrel (plan B) is not an “abortifacient.” It inhibits egg fertilization, PREVENTING pregnancy. You can’t have an abortion if you don’t even have an embryo. Plan B is basically a condom that acts at the microscopic level, preventing ovulation, leaving the eggs in the ovaries where they cannot be fertilized. If the egg has already left by the time the woman has taken it, then plan B does not have an effect. The egg will be fertilized and subject to the same low implantation rate seen in nature.
    Do these religious morons care about science? No, so to quote the late great George Carlin, “According to their logic, any woman who’s had more than one period is serial killer.”
    “Not every ejaculation deserves a name.”

  95. The truth is an asshat // April 1, 2014 at 3:50 pm //

    A shame it was just released today that Hobby Lobby invests its 401k and mutual funds in the companies who manufacture the 4 drugs they refuse to pay for on religious grounds. Hypocrites one and all.

  96. The truth is an asshat // April 1, 2014 at 3:52 pm //

    A shame they invest their 401k and mutual funds in the companies who manufacture those 4 drugs. Hypocrite much??

  97. The truth is an asshat // April 1, 2014 at 3:53 pm //

    When the fucking company who doesn’t want to pay for those drugs invests in the companies that manufacture them that’s when we became petty.

  98. The truth is an asshat // April 1, 2014 at 3:57 pm //

    Once again as a non union member you know more about where my dues go than I do. Research Beck’s Law and eat some crow with your misinformation. Furthermore why would I not want my dues to go to elect officials that have my best interest? I have a choice whether my dues go to political PAC’s. Unlike the NRA members whop have no choice where their dues go. Your analogy is horseshit.

  99. The truth is an asshat // April 1, 2014 at 4:00 pm //

    Who did Shrub borrow from to fund 2 wars ????

  100. Kevin Kuhn // April 1, 2014 at 4:01 pm //

    Slavery was a law too. As was Woman not being allowed to vote. If the law is the law was an actual reason to not fight, then explain the GOP’s continuous need to vote to repeal PP&ACA. Even they don’t buy into the “Law is the Law” argument for remaining passive.

  101. Rebekeys // April 1, 2014 at 4:07 pm //

    This is brilliant…
    What is so interesting to me is how the picketers answer hypocritically or not at all; this is about pro-abortion people getting fearful about “their rights” and they’re not even the employees. I asked the same question to a business owner that this reporter did: “If the roles were reversed and the government said you had to support Pro-Life or another cause you don’t agree with, you would say, ‘Oh well, I’m not a ‘corporation’ so I have no rights.'” Baloney. (And he didn’t answer me.) This article is fantastic because the general media makes Hobby Lobby to look like a “corporate monster” and yet I’ve not heard anything about employees getting upset. Why? Because nobody FORCES them to work there and enjoy all these wonderful benefits. Nobody is FORCING them to believe the same way they do, either. If a corporation reversed roles – looking to meet the religious/political beliefs of every employee – what kind of foolishness is that?! That’s impossible!
    Did Hobby Lobby go “find people” and “force them” to work for them? (And did they say, “We’re a Christian organization so you WILL believe like we believe!”) No. People KNEW what they were getting into when they SIGNED the contract making them an employee. And if they didn’t, that’s their own fault for not being educated on it – not the company’s. That’s like a couple willfully getting married and then the wife says 10 years down the road, “I didn’t know you believed that!” Whose fault is that?! You signed the contract, lady. And you choose what you do from there – not him.

  102. Rebekeys // April 1, 2014 at 4:16 pm //

    Where in the U.S. Law are these “anti-discriminatory practices”? Everyone likes to talk about and reference them but nobody seems to know where in the U.S. Law they are.
    PhoenixM, you are referring to a “hate-crime” and that type of speech is NOT protected in the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment states that free speech is guaranteed unless it is to cause harm to another individual. You are comparing apples to oranges. Every employer has a choice as to what they will and will not offer (pay for) as an employer. There are certain organizations/businesses that offer scholarships and grants to Native Americans – or those of Native American descent – for simply being Native Americans or of that ethnicity; should I then file a lawsuit against these organizations because “they are bigots” and “they didn’t offer ME a scholarship because I’m of European descent!” No, THEY are paying for it and THEY have a right to offer a scholarship/grant to anyone they choose. This is not “hatred” or a “hate crime” towards me, this is the CHOICE of that organization/business to offer money to those of their choosing. And they chose to award it to someone of that ethnicity. So I would then look for an organization/business that would offer a scholarship that was compatible to me.

  103. Rebekeys // April 1, 2014 at 4:23 pm //

    Brad, you have no idea how many Muslim practices are allowed and yet Christian practices are not. A dear friend of mine works for a HUGE corporation that allows Muslims to pray at their scheduled time – on the clock – and yet banned the ability for Christians in that workplace to pray at all. That’s just one case. (People aren’t even aware that Islam is now being taught in schools. Why isn’t Christianity?) That’s absolutely discriminatory but my friend says he just remains respectful – didn’t make a stink – but said he still exercises his Constitutional rights and if they want to dispute it, he has Constitutional grounds to dispute it.
    And here is what I want to know…everyone (who is upset about this) states Hobby Lobby is FORCING their beliefs on employees. The employees signed the contract to work there – knowing this was a Christian organization. (And if they didn’t, that’s their own fault because when you take a job, you know what you’re getting into – or should.) That’s an invalid argument.

  104. johnbuoy // April 1, 2014 at 4:36 pm //

    It’s funny that the two remaining drugs they don’t want to provide coverage for are made by a pharmaceutical company that their retirement plan invests in. Also rather contradictory that most of their stock comes from China who practices enforced abortion and has the highest abortion rate of any country on Earth. Convenient convictions, I’d call theirs.

  105. Carol Scroggin Courson // April 1, 2014 at 4:42 pm //

    they aren’t forcing anyone to do anything, they can walk out the door the same way they came in. If you go to work for a Muslim then expect that his beliefs will be a part of his business. Once again don’t go to work there if you cannot abide by their standards. We have so many choices as to where we want to be employed, no one should work where they do not feel comfortable.

  106. PhoenixM // April 1, 2014 at 4:45 pm //

    You’ve kinda tied a few different things together into one, so I’ll do my best to separate them into their respective points.

    1) Anti-discrimination is enshrined in the 14th Amendment.

    2) As an employer, you *don’t* have free reign as to what you will or won’t offer to pay for. There are certain minimum requirements that must be met, and there are *laws* that have to be followed if you choose to employ somebody. I might be willing to work for $1/hour, but that doesn’t mean an employer can legally get away with only paying me $1/hour. I can agree to work at an employer’s construction site without a helmet, but if the law insists that my employer *must* provide me one, then that’s what he has to do. Being an employer doesn’t make you the emperor of your business.

    3) There actually aren’t such protections involving things like scholarships and endowments. Why? I suppose it’s because, historically, scholarships and endowments for minorities have been seen as an attempt to fight the systemic discrimination that has generally been present in our society for the past few hundred years; in other words, the scholarships (in a sense) are intended to *help* the practical implementation of the 14th Amendment. Is this a good thing? I honestly don’t know; I can’t dispute that it is a form of discrimination in and of itself, though I do understand as well that it’s there to fight against systemic discrimination.

  107. Carol Scroggin Courson // April 1, 2014 at 4:48 pm //

    corey , it really is that simple. Hobby Lobby should not be forced to do something with their company in order to please someone who believes otherwise. Common Sense.

  108. Angie Dansie // April 1, 2014 at 4:56 pm //

    And, when they buy a lot of their products from China, where abortions are practically forces by national policy???????

  109. Angie Dansie // April 1, 2014 at 4:59 pm //

    However, I do agree that they treat their employees very well otherwise & it’s really not the worst right-wingy company out there….in fact, probably one of the best. We really should be focusing our anger on McDonald’s, WalMart, etc. who treat their employees like slaves & never supplied health care before the ACA. These companies are far more hypocritical & less humane than Hobby Lobby

  110. Angie Dansie // April 1, 2014 at 5:03 pm //

    Besides that, unions contribute a pittance to the political process compared with PACs, lobbying, direct promises from corporations, etc.

  111. Angie Dansie // April 1, 2014 at 5:09 pm //

    Uh, when did we vote on the ACA? That was not something the American people voted on. The people never vote on federal laws. We voted for our congresscritters, who then (the majority, anyway) voted for it.
    The only reason more people are without insurance is because 1) their previous insurance company is no longer allowed to sell rip-off insurance that doesn’t cover standard care & the company sent the customer a mis-leading letter dropping them; or 2)they watch Fox News & haven’t tried to get it because they were told it’s bad. I know a LOT of people who are very excited about their Obamacare plan, because they could never afford health insurance before, but now they can!

  112. Ulrich Robin // April 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm //

    Well it will establish the right but that’s it. That doesn’t mean a bunch of companies will suddenly follow suit. Only IF they believe their rights are being violated. That’s sort of the way it’s supposed to be. Why would anyone argue against better freedom. (Not more mind you…but better)

  113. John Gallstone // April 1, 2014 at 5:40 pm //

    Its a business, not a church. As a business they are required to obey the laws. (or pay the tiny fines associated with it)…. Besides, they already have millions invested in Chinese stock, and buy and sell Chinese goods, so their money is already financing a country that FORCES abortions on women, against their will. That is the ultimate in Hypocrisy.

  114. Mazzy Black // April 1, 2014 at 5:58 pm //

    But by that logic every progress we’ve made throughout history wouldn’t exist. Slavery would still exist because abolishing it still didn’t address the inequality between whites and blacks. We have to start somewhere.

  115. If they have such a problem with these drugs then why do they invest in the companies that MAKE THEM ?

  116. Mazzy Black // April 1, 2014 at 6:02 pm //

    Freedom OF religion is also freedom FROM religion. You are welcome to obey your God just as every other person in this country is welcome to ignore your beliefs. You are forgetting the “from” part of that freedom.

  117. Mazzy Black // April 1, 2014 at 6:06 pm //

    Simply mentioning a word or phrase does not automatically shift the conversation to a whole different topic. Heath insurance as health ‘care’ is not this topic. This topic is about the right of an entity to dictate their own stipulations upon their employees entering into the national health care program, which already has it’s benefits laid out by the gov’t of the United States.

    And while we’re at it, let’s just address the elephant in the room here: If Hobby Lobby gave health benefits to their employees then they would be able to dictate those benefits, but instead they want their employees to buy in to the national health care plan, yet somehow dictate that plan to said employees. All Hobby Lobby actually has to do to dictate their own benefits is to provide said benefits themselves instead of relying on a third party to supply them. My job gives health benefits so the national heath care plan or “ObamaCare” doesn’t affect me or any employee of my employer since we all have employer-provided health care. All the more reason Hobby Lobby has NO right to dictate the terms of that program.

  118. Mazzy Black // April 1, 2014 at 6:14 pm //

    Ha! We are in total agreement then! Hobby Lobby absolutely does NOT have to provide the Gov’t heath care to their employees. Instead THEY could provide health care and this whole discussion would be moot. But no, Hobby Lobby doesn’t want to do that. What they want is for their employees to buy in to the gov’t program BUT they want to then dictate that program to said employees. That’s absurd. If it’s about their belief structure then so be it! Provide your own health insurance to your employees instead of expecting someone else to step in and do it for you! But if you ARE going to have someone else provide it (as clearly they are) then you don’t get a say in what they choose to provide!

    Gov’t health insurance doesn’t affect me at all because my benefits are employer-based benefits like many other jobs are. Therefore my employer dictates to me what they will and won’t cover as they rightfully should – they are supplying (and paying) for it so they get to decide. Hobby Lobby wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want someone else to foot the bill while still trying to manipulate the benefits to their own desires. Sorry Hobby Lobby, that ain’t the way it works! Provide heath insurance to your employees or shut up and sit down!!

  119. Nicole Sarpy Hill // April 1, 2014 at 6:43 pm //

    Why close the store on Sunday. It’s the first day of the week. The BIBLE commands you to “Remember the SABBATH DAY to keep it HOLY. The SABBATH is SATURDAY. DUH!

  120. timfromla // April 1, 2014 at 7:04 pm //

    Funny thing about Hobby Lobby, they have morals based upon their religious belief, yet they have no issue buying products from a country that forces abortion on its women:

    http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/29/hobby-lobby-mixture-racism-xenophobia.html

    Is this a matter of free market capitalism? Sure. But then glass houses and stones?

  121. ROFLMAOAY // April 1, 2014 at 7:33 pm //

    Corey, I might be able to understand the position of Hobby Lobby is they were not such ridiculous hypocrites ..

    I’m sure we can agree that if you object to the law based on your “religious beliefs” those same religious beliefs they are using to deny healthcare coverage to their female employees, would be held in all other aspects of their business.

    Can we agree to that? If so, then why in the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan hold more than $73 million
    in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and “abortifacient drugs” commonly used in abortions. Hobby Lobby makes large matching contributions to this company-sponsored 401(k).

    Also, if they object to the law based on their “religious beliefs” how then I’d also like to know why Hobby Lobby makes most of their revenue through the purchasing of their products from China where abandonment and selective killing of female fetuses continues. Forced abortion is still a regular practice in China!!!

    Finally, I’d
    also like to know why they are fine with males on their insurance plan receiving Viagra and Penis Pumps while denying women contraception?

    HYPOCRISY at it’s finest. Wouldn’t you agree??

  122. Jennifer // April 1, 2014 at 7:38 pm //

    Please look again at what they are saying. Hobby Lobby is already providing 16 of the 20 forms of birth control. The only ones that they object to are those that can cause “end of life”. If a woman chooses to end a pregnancy whether through medication or a traditional abortion…that is a personal choice. Your employer should not have to provide you with that option. That is essentially what Hobby Lobby is fighting. There is a reason employers don’t have to cover medical abortions. Again…that is an elective choice. If you are going to make an employer pay for and provide for something that is elective, then Obamacare should also require employers to provide plastic surgery and face lifts in their insurance plans. To be honest, I think it’s great that any employer even covers birth control. Unless a Dr. says that it’s medically necessary, it’s elective. I’ve never really understood the concept behind expecting someone else to pay for or provide for my personal choices.

    And here is perspective….everyone (including the government itself) will fight intensely for the matter of birth control. But where are these same people…where are YOU Brad when someone is denied life saving treatment by their insurance company? It happens all the time. I was asked to join a social media campaign against Blue Cross Blue Shield in Oklahoma awhile back. Why? They denied a teenager with Cancer the life saving treatment her Dr. wanted her to have. They finally caved to the pressure and overturned their decision when it went so viral. That happens constantly. .THAT is worth fighting for. In comparison, elective birth control seems superficial

  123. ROFLMAOAY // April 1, 2014 at 7:38 pm //

    But they will invest heavily in those exact same companies that produce those 4 out of 12 contraceptives (Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan holds more than $73 million
    in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions) and will make most of their revenues off of good they’ve purchased in China where abandonment and selective killing of female fetuses continues. Forced abortion is still a regular practice in China!!!

    Can you not smell the succulent aroma of utter HYPOCRISY??

  124. ShockWitch // April 1, 2014 at 7:39 pm //

    I would sue any employer that would make me listen to bible passages before a staff meeting – disgusting, I’m surprised they haven’t been sued for such blatant religious discrimination.

  125. ROFLMAOAY // April 1, 2014 at 7:40 pm //

    But they should be allowed to force their hypocritical beliefs on their employees??

  126. ROFLMAOAY // April 1, 2014 at 7:47 pm //

    Sure, but once you incorporate and begin taking advantage of the benefits “incorporation” brings, such as “protecting your personal assets”, better access to capital, tax benefits…etc., they must play by the same rules as everyone else.

    I might be able to see their point if they employed this same perspective on the rest of their business, but the fact that they invest in the same companies that prodice these few drugs they object to and make their profits on good they purchase in China which is one of the worst counties when it comes to government sanctioned abortion…make their hypocrisy utterly ridiculous..

  127. Todd Smeester // April 1, 2014 at 8:00 pm //

    You want to talk about discrimination? Who’s gonna buy my condoms? I for one am all for giving all the birth control we can to those on the left. Anything to stop them from reproducing!

  128. ROFLMAOAY // April 1, 2014 at 8:03 pm //

    And you’d be just fine if your company, one that’s 5 minutes from your new home, one that you’ve worked for for 12 years, who has great daycare, where you’ve received many promotions are sitting in a great position with great pay, great benefits and ample time off….was purchased by a wealthy owner from the middle east and now required you to read the Koran, wear a black veil, pray in silence to Allah 6 times a day and work from sun up to sundown because that’s your new owners religion. Because that’s the door you’re opening up.

    You’d just quit and go seek employment somewhere else. Dig into your savings while you search for something comparable or something at all. Maybe a job in the next city, which would triple your commute time, force you to spend more time away from your family for half the pay, no benefits and in a lower position.

    You moron, it’s not just “that simple”.

  129. ROFLMAOAY // April 1, 2014 at 8:05 pm //

    My goodness you really are ignorant aren’t you!! “We have so many choices as to where we want to be employed”…really? Where do you people come up with this shit??

  130. ROFLMAOAY // April 1, 2014 at 8:24 pm //

    You are a liar. Plain and simple. Unless your friend works for HUGE corporation outside of the United States based out of the middle east then you’re either lying or they are breaking the law and I’d go as far as to put all my money on you lying. A HUGE corporation would never allow a Muslim to pray and then ban a Christian from praying. They’d face a massive lawsuit and it would be all over the news. That’s utter horseshit.

    Secondly, neither Islam nor Christianity are being taught legally in public schools. You must be unaware of the thousands of private Christian grade schools and Universities across America that teach Christianity. Just look up the Association of Christian Schools and you can get a list of the many thousand school that teach Christianity. What is the difference if Islam is being taught in private Islamic schools. Who cares if it’s not being funded by taxpayer dollars.

    And finally, I have no problem with the beliefs of the owner’s of Hobby Lobby. It’s the company trying to use the owner’s beliefs to skirt the law.

    If the company wants to “operate the company in a manner consistent with Biblical principles.” then why does the company invest in the same companies that produce the medication that they say violates their principled beliefs?? Why does the company make it revenue off of inventory bought in China, one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to forced abortion by the government?

    So they can increase profit if they disregard their beliefs, but at the same time want to reduce spending by touting those same beliefs they’ve previously disregarded in order to increase profit.

    Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

  131. “no longer allowed to sell…” there is something wrong with that being ok with anyone in America… Many more people are without insurance as a result of this failing administration and more will be without healthcare when they present their “obamacrap” to a doctor.

  132. Erik Christensen // April 1, 2014 at 8:30 pm //

    Unless the law is repealed (like the laws allowing slavery or women not being allowed to vote) then what your opinion is doesn’t mean a thing.

    The reason we’re against 0bamacare is that the law is obviously so flawed that we should start over from scratch and maybe READ the law before we pass it.

  133. sandy_becker // April 1, 2014 at 8:49 pm //

    “christian values” are based on fairy tales, & the need for white men to exert control & power over those with different beliefs, something guaranteed TWICE in our constitution. as many people in the world believe the soul to be eternal, & that a fetus is nothing more than a vessel, a POSSIBILITY, for life, & NOT tied to the flesh until birth; & scrounge around all you like, science will NOT substantiate the existence of a soul in a fetus, a growth like seeds not yet planted. that would make ANY killing of a soul an impossibility, since a soul simply moves on to the next “opportunity,” of which OUR world has NO shortage of.
    and, while we’re extolling the “positive virtues” of knobby-lobby, the VERY same owners have been in the practice of INVESTING in contraceptive/ABORTION drug manufacturers, so they evidently have NO probs if it puts MONEY in THEIR pockets (& their investors). there’s your “christian values” at work, as has been the case for THOUSANDS of years, the corralling of the stupid by the selfish & greedy…

  134. Nobody told you to do or not do anything. Go live your life, just don’t dictate how I will live mine. There is no right of freedom From religion in the constitution, that is a construct of liberals with a desire to silence people of faith for political purposes. If you don’t like my faith go away, I will not have you or anyone else tell me to be silent because you don’t like what I believe.
    My faith forms my life, my beliefs and the way I live…including my political opinions- once again if you don’t like it- move along.
    Karen- you forgot one little point- we do not have a king (even though Obama seems to think he is one) but we are to obey the laws AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT VIOLATE THE COMMANDS OF GOD. Try checking out Acts 5 and 6 where Peter and John, then later the other apostles refused to obey the order to stop preaching in the name of Jesus because to do so would violate the instructions given to them by God.

  135. Funny you bring up the 401k. As I found myself defending a company I knew nothing about earlier I Googled them and that’s one of the first things I saw. The China thing is a different issue IMO. Not in defense of just HL, but products aren’t manufactured and produced in the US in a way the majority of companies can buy American and stay relevant in the marketplace. You must have dug deep to find that Viagra & pumps are approved. But if anything those two items promote reproduction. Lol. The hypocrisy is agreed upon though.

  136. Mike Jones // April 1, 2014 at 9:00 pm //

    nigger?

  137. ShockWitch // April 1, 2014 at 9:04 pm //

    Sooooo, everyone refers to these laws and usually don’t feel the need to reference them because it’s common knowledge they exist. And really, not that hard to find – you have computer, right? A simple Google search would have kept you from making such a silly comment. Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, where could these laws be? They must just be making them up! I mean, seriously Rebekeys, we’re talking about The Civil Rights Act here. It’s not woodgy woodgy in the sky. As far as your example of the scholarship thing, those are donations to nonprofit organizations (and just for the record, even if your not of that race you can usually apply it’s just usually people aren’t a**h***s enough to do that) – not something for employees through work or it would be discrimination. Your misinformation is profound.
    Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;

    the Equal Pay Act of 1963 (EPA), which protects men and women who perform substantially equal work in the same establishment from sex-based wage discrimination;

    the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA), which protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older;

    Title I and Title V of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, as amended (ADA), which prohibit employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities in the private sector, and in state and local governments;

    Sections 501 and 505 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which prohibit discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities who work in the federal government;

    Title II of the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008 (GINA), which prohibits employment discrimination based on genetic information about an applicant, employee, or former employee; and

    the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which, among other things, provides monetary damages in cases of intentional employment discrimination.

    The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) enforces all of these laws. EEOC also provides oversight and coordination of all federal equal employment opportunity regulations, practices, and policies.

  138. Mary Riewer // April 1, 2014 at 9:16 pm //

    The Supreme Court decision regarding Hobby Lobby would not only affect their employees but all working women. Religion does not belong in a business. That includes hospitals and all the other for-profit entities owned by religious institutions.

  139. Mary Riewer // April 1, 2014 at 9:20 pm //

    Anyone visit a Hobby Lobby lately? Look at the employees. Almost all are women in their 20’s and 30’s. Peak child-bearing age. And besides the audio proselytizing, the only thing missing from their attempt to indoctrinate customers is the Kool-Aid!

  140. Amschel Leonid Bauer // April 1, 2014 at 9:51 pm //

    Free association. If they inform you during the hiring process that their staff meetings are opened with a prayer and you agree to that as part of your employment how is it discrimination? If you think that’s not for you then don’t take the job. If I applied for a place and they informed me that they start each business day with an invocation of the goddess and I wasn’t OK with that I wouldn’t take the job.

  141. Andrew J. Craig // April 1, 2014 at 9:59 pm //

    well here’s a simple fix for you, DON’T WORK FOR THEM! quit trying to force your beliefs on their business, stupid

  142. Siggi Ming // April 1, 2014 at 10:12 pm //

    But it’s ok for Obama to break his own “signature law”? He doesn’t follow his own law and you don’t have a problem with that? Hobby Lobby has every right to challenge the constitutionality of Obamacare. Just because something is law doesn’t mean that it’s right. If somebody kills a pregnant woman, that person will be charged with double homicide because the fetus is considered a human being. Ergo, abortifacients kill a human being. Hobby Lobby is not against birth control, Hobby Lobby is against abortion. Having to provide insurance coverage for abortion is against their religious beliefs, which are protected by the constitution. If a woman has sex, she needs to be responsible enough to use birth control if she doesn’t want to become pregnant. Abortion is not a form of birth control.

  143. Siggi Ming // April 1, 2014 at 10:25 pm //

    If you knew anything about investing in mutual funds, which most 401(k)s are, then you would know that they are a conglomerate of a whole bunch of different funds. Corporations who provide 401(k)s to their employees do not normally keep track of each and every fund. The fact that some of those companies make some of these drugs doesn’t equate hypocrisy. You’re just trying really hard to find fault with Hobby Lobby and you come up with this stuff that is pretty much irrelevant, especially when you know how a business is run.

  144. The fact that you have to resort to name calling on a discussion thread is demonstrative of your lower intellect.

  145. Kyle Karlin // April 1, 2014 at 10:41 pm //

    Hobby Lobby funding the companies that manufacture the abortifacient drugs that they are so against because of religious value shows that they talk out of both sides of their mouth. They rather support the corporation that makes the drugs rather than actually support their employees having these drugs. This is typical of corporations and this seems twice the hypocrisy since these are DEVOUT CHRISTIANS who founded Hobby Lobby. I think the founders of Hobby Lobby should read Jesus’ rebukes of the Pharisees because this is at the same level and I bet Jesus would rebuke the CEO of Hobby Lobby.

  146. Nate Williams // April 1, 2014 at 10:47 pm //

    Do you understand that they believe the drugs in question kill a living human being and are opposed on those grounds? I think we could all agree that human life has an infinitely high value which should be protected by employer, government, and citizen. The question at hand is where human life begins; an unsettled question to be sure. Many Christians in the United States believe strongly in a Biblical doctrine that God creates life at conception and the intentional ending of that life is a grievous and wicked violation of His commands. What the law is requiring is that Christians be penalized for refusing to devalue one of the preeminent and central commandments of their faith – “Thou Shalt Not Murder.” Are these believers who are faithful to their doctrine worthy of excoriation? Do we want a government to exterminate a culture that lifts high and respects the value of humanity? There are profoundly disturbing implications in allowing laws that restrict the free exercise of peaceable religious beliefs. The severity of the disturbance is even greater when those laws require they violate the cornerstones of their belief to the point where they feel they are being coerced to be a literal accessory to murder.

  147. Nate Williams // April 1, 2014 at 10:57 pm //

    Do you buy things made in China?

  148. They are not forcing anything on any one. The ACA, Obama, is forcing H L to pay for 4 contraceptives that will abort life. They the owners are paying for that. No one is forcing any one to read the Bible.

  149. Who is being denied their rights here. Not the employee. They are getting 16 contraceptives so no one is denying them any thing. The owners are the ones having rights denied.

  150. What laws are those. The employees can have contraceptives. There are 4 they don’t want to pay for.

  151. Who is controlling a woman’s body.

  152. If you can push buttons on a cash register at Hobby Lobby, you can push buttons on a cash register at any of the other 100’s of stores around. It’s not rocket science. The employees have 3 choices: 1) go push cash register buttons somewhere else 2) Choose one of the SIXTEEN free birth controls. 3) Buy their own birth control. Even the morning after pill can be purchased over the counter. People act so entitled these days….geez.

  153. Show me where you got those 401 k stats. Most 401k’s are done by companies outside the employer. Most they have no choice but to carry the 401k given to them so I doubt H L SAID i WANT THIS COMPANY. As for China a lot of businesses are run by Christians now. They even hold church services there. So who are you to say they are not buying from these companies..

  154. LOL…just the simple fact that you cannot complete a post without name calling truly shows your intelligence. So, I’ll keep it simple so you can hopefully understand. No big words, I promise! Hobby Lobby isn’t forcing anything on anyone. Their practices are very well known. If you don’t like Christians and don’t want anything to do with the religion, I definitely wouldn’t apply to work there in the first place. I would simply be a cashier at another store. But, I don’t act entitled and I would NEVER demand the owner of a business to revolve around what I believe or what I want. It’s not my business. I don’t own it. Was that simple enough? Hope my sentences weren’t to difficult for you to comprehend.

  155. KW Crosby // April 1, 2014 at 11:19 pm //

    The disputed birth control methods are not abortifacients. They do not cause abortions, they prevent ovulation. They are, in fact, contraceptives. RU428, an abortifacient, is not covered. Hobby Lobby is just flat wrong.

  156. I don’t entirely disagree with what you are saying. I do think birth control in all forms may be a choice for some, however, I believe it to be a necessary lesser evil. Some can afford to pay for it and some can’t. The ones who can’t afford birth control aren’t likely to have less sex than those that can afford it. If you don’t want to pay for their birth control, are you willing to support their children through welfare paid for by your taxes? Your government often donates birth control, in various forms, to developing nations to aid in population control. It seems odd that they wouldn’t make it available to their own people.

    Like you, I don’t seek handouts in life, I work hard to support myself. Nevertheless, I recognize that I am lucky to be strong, healthy, intelligent and, therefore, capable of excelling in western society. I don’t begrudge those who aren’t equally blessed and require assistance for whatever reason. The day may come where I am no longer strong and healthy and I may have to rely on social welfare.

    To answer your question, where are you Brad when someone is denied life saving treatment… Well, first I don’t live in the US, I live in a country that has universal health care, put in place by politicians that I voted for. Though I do not have a vote in your country, I take every opportunity to tell Americans that I am disgusted by their health care system for the very reasons you have mentioned. I explain how having stronger social programs, including access to healthcare, benefits society as a whole. I believe I have changed some minds but, unfortunately, not many. Is there more I can do to help with the American health-care issue? If there is, please tell me, I will gladly do it.

    While I do believe all forms of birth control should be provided, that isn’t what most irked me about Hobby Lobby. I was more bothered by the bible readings they subject their staff to.

  157. I think it’s great that they provide SIXTEEN out of the twenty types of birth control. Especially when birth control is elective (except when medically needed). Plus, the morning after pill can be purchased over the counter. I have yet to meet or even see a Hobby Lobby employee make a big fuss over this. I know 3 women who work there and they have absolutely no problem with Hobby Lobby.

  158. KW Crosby // April 1, 2014 at 11:27 pm //

    The morning after pill does NOT abort or kill an embryo. It prevents ovulation. Just because Hobby Lobby believes something that is not true does not give them the right to impose their hysterical beliefs on their employees. Where is your defense of their employees’ free exercise of peaceable religious beliefs? Or are they not allowed to practice a different set of beliefs than their employer?

  159. Your fairy tale is full of lies. Life begins at conception and those 4 can abort that life. This has nothing to do with the people of the rest of the world. This has to do with our Constitution. It matters not what the rest of the world thinks. Many investments go to drug companies because they do make money. Whether or not H L knew what all these companies made is not known yet. It is still an infringement.

  160. And the owners have every right to challenge a law in court. They aren’t breaking any laws. It’s a scary day in America when the government can tell business owners what they will pay for, even if it something that is completely against their religion. To me, it’s the government who is doing the discriminating.If I start my own business, I should be able to set all of my on rules, hours, employee benefits, etc.

  161. KW Crosby // April 1, 2014 at 11:32 pm //

    I think given the fact that Hobby Lobby invests in morning after pill and abortifacient manufacturing companies, their supposed moral stance on the contraception requirements is nothing more than a desire to have their cake and eat it too. They want the tax benefits available to companies providing health insurance to their employees, but they don’t want to provide the coverage that goes along with it.

  162. Nate Williams // April 1, 2014 at 11:33 pm //

    Certainly the employees are welcome to exercise their religion. I have no defense to make – you are the one implying Hobby Lobby is restricting their exercise of religion. What religious exercise are they restricting? I did not realize that was at issue here.

  163. Oh get real….that line is sooooo overused by liberals and it doesn’t work. If a women can’t pick out a birth control when she has SIXTEEN free options, she has a problem. If she is soooo bothered by not getting the other 4 options free, she can go push buttons on a cash register somewhere else. It’s not rocket science. This is what is wrong with America today. Certain people want everything free, and they don’t care who they step on to get it. I’m so over this lazy, entitled, PC attitude liberals are trying to force on everyone.

  164. LOL….what have you been smoking???

  165. And here is the description from the Plan B website:

    It works mainly by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary. It is possible that Plan B One-Step® may also work by preventing fertilization of an egg (the uniting of sperm with the egg) or by preventing attachment (implantation) to the uterus (womb).
    “By preventing attachment” means that fertilization has occurred.

  166. KW Crosby // April 1, 2014 at 11:39 pm //

    So they can’t be bothered to look at what their 401ks are invested in but they are willing to go all the way to the supreme court to fight 4 controversial NON-abortifacient contraceptives? That’s ridiculous.

  167. Yes…didn’t you know that the owners of Hobby Lobby hold guns to people’s heads and force them to fill out applications to work there? SMH.

  168. I see no part where they are discriminating against any one. They are the victims.

  169. Have you checked everything in your 401k. Are they investing in cancer cause things such as tobacco, or ozone destroying materials. Are you sure. Do you care.

  170. 16 OUT OF 20 isn’t good enough. Show me data where those 4 are a must.

  171. The Sabbath is what ever day you choose it to be. For the Green’s it is Sunday, when most of the churches in the U.S. meet.

  172. John, settle down and lay off of the Koolaid.

  173. First, you cannot compare birth control to a blood transfusion. That is absolutely ridiculous. (Especially when Hobby Lobby is providing 16 different types of birth control.) Your situations listed are very far fetched but I’ll run with them. Here is your answer: RESEARCH THE COMPANY’S RULES, REGULATIONS, BENEFITS, ETC. BEFORE YOU APPLY. If you don’t agree with them, don’t apply. That will take care of everything. BUT, that would require people to be self sufficient, and in this “entitled” liberal society we live in, that’s not going to happen.

  174. Or….you can use one of the SIXTEEN free types of birth control that Hobby Lobby provides. Places like Hobby Lobby aren’t meant for people making a career. They are for college kids, women who just want to make some extra money, or senior adults who just want to work. There is a reason you don’t have to have a college degree to push buttons on a cash register or place picture frames on a shelf. What’s next? You want the workers at McDonald’s to bring in $90,000 a year?

  175. There’s one way for HL to resolve this. Just quit offering insurance at all. Would that make you left wing lunatics feel better? What if want to practice some belief system which involves human sacrifice and unbridled sexual activity for 24 hours? Should I expect my employer to provide me with virgins for sacrifice and prostitutes for sex?

    There is no constitutional right which states an employer must provide you any insurance at all. If you have it, and you’re working at a place where minimum wage is almost double that of federal requirements, STHU and be thankful you have a job. Especially in this economy.

    My professional life went to hell about 18 months after obama took office. I lost a job which paid 70K-80K annually. I’d never been without work more than a week in my life. And if I told you how old I was when I started working, you wouldn’t even believe me.

    After a month of unemployment, I was interviewing for a minimum wage job at WalMart on the night of the 4th of July, instead of watching fireworks with my kids. The job was third shift, which I detest. and certainly didn’t pay enough to cover my bills, but I knew I had to start somewhere, and I could work my way up from there. I also applied at Hobby Lobby, but I never even got a call back. I was “overqualified” for all those jobs.

    At that point in time, I would have been ELATED to have a job at Hobby Lobby, with or without insurance. That’s another thing, you’re always free to decline your employer’s insurance. You may even be able negotiate a higher wage in exchange for forfeiting the insurance. Then go get whatever plan you want.

    The left wing lunatics are the biggest bunch of crybaby, unappreciative, entitlement minded, laziest people in the world. They’re not will to work for a damn thing. They think as soon as they walk out of school someone should be thrilled to be graced with their presence and hand them the CEO position tomorrow.

  176. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 12:15 am //

    How about the fact that every one of the 401k mutual funds that Hobby Lobby offers their employees and that Hobby Lobby invests heavily in invests in the same companies that manufacture the very same contraceptives that Hobby Lobby does not want their insurance plans to offer?

    The pills are too evil for their employees to be exposed to, but not evil enough to not make a profit off of? In fact by their investments they are helping these companies to profit, and produce the contraceptives.

  177. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 12:20 am //

    It’s ridiculous to you as a christian, to someone who holds those religious beliefs it is not so ridiculous. It is the sort of hypocritical view that christians in this country seem to have when it comes to the rights of those outside of their religion.

  178. Ned Carter // April 2, 2014 at 12:23 am //

    It is not 4.16 a month. It is 500.00 right then, plus the doctor fee.

    And do you have access to any form of news? The economy is not the best for those seeking jobs, so yes… Hobby Lobby is not a place for college degree holding career seekers, but those are some of the people working their because jobs are not plentiful. And no, 90,000 a year is not what I am saying, how about enough to survive without having to go on assistance?

  179. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 12:23 am //

    I don’t know too many doctors or pharmaceutical companies willing to take 4.16 per month for 5 years for their product.

  180. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 12:24 am //

    Yes, the christians in America are so burdened and repressed. It’s a wonder they don’t all meet underground to avoid their persecution…

  181. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 12:27 am //

    Hobby Lobby does not actually pay for the birth control they are so against. They are included in the insurance policy by default, and the cost is so insignificant to the cost of the plan that removing it would not reduce the amount paid for the plan.

  182. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 12:31 am //

    No company can ban someone from praying. They can prevent people from holding organized prayer meetings on company time. If however someone wants to take a break, and pray, there is no company that would be able to stop them.

  183. KW Crosby // April 2, 2014 at 12:44 am //

    Hobby Lobby imposes their religion on their employees. This is the opposite of freedom of religion. The free exercise of religion doesn’t extend to imposing your beliefs on others.

  184. Nate Williams // April 2, 2014 at 12:46 am //

    I think it’s interesting that the MJ story presumes the position of Hobby Lobby without indicating their comment or any attempt to obtain comment from them. I am hesitant to remark as further vetting will come in due course. Is it surprising that a large scale company providing benefits to thousands of employees has retirement holdings in Pfizer, Bayer, Teva, and other pharmaceutical companies whose reach extends far beyond contraception? Honestly, the accusation boils down to calling Hobby Lobby hypocritical for allowing its employees to benefit from Aspirin.

  185. mannannie // April 2, 2014 at 1:48 am //

    They don’t want to buy insurance that covers those “abortificants” but they don’t mind at all investing in the companies that produce those “abortificants”. Hypocrisy at its best.

  186. James O // April 2, 2014 at 1:56 am //

    Actually, it’s not. These pills control ovulation, thus preventing fertilization. And if an already released egg does become fertilized, these drugs to not prohibit implantation. these are medical facts, not the beliefs of the owners of Hobby Lobby. By the way, do you believe all fertilized eggs are life? Many do not result in pregnancy.

  187. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 4:13 am //

    Oh, you’ve got to be fucking kidding me! You think “I’m trying to hard to find fault with Hobby Lobby” when THEY’VE fought this law all the way to the SUPREME COURT???

    You don’t believe that their public actions surrounding this entire care open them up to scrutiny…well deserved scrutiny!!

    Their stance is utterly hypocritical and there is no way a logical person can argue that fact.

  188. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 4:19 am //

    I am sure that some of my purchases come from China. What in the hell does that have to do with anything??

    I’m not a fucking, hypocritical, religious lunatic trying to save myself/business money I might instead be forced to spend on the healthcare of my employees for the sole purpose of making myself an extra dollar.

    If you’re going to call out, and fall back on, your religious values in once instance, then you can’t simply ignore them in another.

  189. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 4:23 am //

    There is the ignorance of your belief system. You focus on the menial labor positions within which your myopic grasp of the business world resides. Once you step outside of that view, say with people who have a high school diploma, a college degree or even a graduate degree…your whole world belief system falls apart. Are you really that ignorant?

  190. Not hypocrisy at all. Viagra and Penis pumps don’t kill fertilized life.

  191. Pjs8200 // April 2, 2014 at 6:38 am //

    I’m glad you people don’t have a problem with your employer decided what your healthcare options are. Kinda funny when all the right wingers were constantly crying about the supposed “death panels” associated with Obamacare and kept saying healthcare should be between you and your doctor, The thing with religious beliefs is they shouldn’t be be forced on others.

  192. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:39 am //

    “While those in the video would have you believe corporations are not people (persons), under US Code they are:”

    Well, “Citizen’s United” (talk about an oxymoron) is an outrage and we will eventually repeal that unconstitutional monstrosity as soon as Clarence Thomas has his well-deserved massive stroke.

  193. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:41 am //

    Wal Mart. Another Christian organization, another blight on the rights of Man.

  194. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:42 am //

    “Just because something is law doesn’t mean that it’s right.”

    Take Citizen’s United, for example.

  195. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:43 am //

    Since when is an IUD not a contraceptive? These Christian Taliban have to be stopped before they turn the country into the Christian version of Iran.

  196. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:44 am //

    No, you should not be able to set your own rules. You are a member of society and you must be held to the same standards as everyone else. Otherwise there is chaos.

  197. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:47 am //

    An IUD is a contraceptive. And the “morning after” pill is a contraceptive (prevents or delays ovulation). The sperm never reaches an egg, therefore conception does not occur. Therefore, abortion is not even the subject here.

    What about this is so difficult for your Christianists to understand? Well?

  198. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:47 am //

    When they block the ability for men to get Viagra, get back to me.

  199. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:49 am //

    “Do you understand that they believe the drugs in question kill a living human being and are opposed on those grounds?”

    Do you understand that a pill that prevents ovulation means that the sperm and egg never meet, therefore, a “living human being” is never even in the equation?

    It seems you have absolutely NO CONCEPT of the subject matter.

  200. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 8:50 am //

    How does aspirin fit into the argument? You want vetting? Nobody is taking away the employees aspirin. smdh.

  201. You know that’ll never happen. All those old guys (Republican or Democrat) need that stuff in order to cheat on their wives.

  202. nogeeksadmin // April 2, 2014 at 9:00 am //

    You are a LIAR. Show a link to your source.

    From Princeton University:

    Emergency contraceptive pills prevent pregnancy primarily, or perhaps exclusively, by delaying or inhibiting ovulation. There is no evidence to suggest that either of the FDA-approved emergency contraceptive options, levonorgestrel (LNG, such as Plan B One-Step, Next Choice One Dose, Next Choice, and Levonorgestrel Tablets) or ulipristal acetate (UPA, such as ella) works after an egg is fertilized

    Emergency contraceptive pills will not cause an abortion. EC is not the same as the abortion pill. There is no point in a woman’s cycle when the emergency contraceptive pills available in the United States would end a pregnancy once it has started. Hormonal emergency contraceptive pills don’t have any effect if you are already pregnant. If you decide to have use an IUD for emergency contraception, your health care provider would first confirm that you are not already pregnant.

  203. AlexZane // April 2, 2014 at 9:20 am //

    and your right to practice your religion or lack of religion ends where their right to practice theirs begins. Watch the video, the one thing you do not understand is that your personal beliefs do not supersede anyone else’s. You also cannot force your beliefs on someone else just like you are claiming. If you want birth control go out and get it, don’t force some else to get it for you. It really is that simple.

  204. AlexZane // April 2, 2014 at 9:22 am //

    love how many commenters don’t watch the video and understand the point it makes. How people think it is ok to force others to do things for their own comfort but when someone tries to force them to do something it is against their rights. Liberal logic at its best.

  205. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 9:23 am //

    The level of hypocrisy (being utterly ridiculous and all) is always speculative. It’s entirely based on one’s point of view. Essentially because we are all hypocrites in some form or another. It doesn’t stop us though, from doing everything in our own power to be the least hypocritical as we can be. Should HL be required to lower their standards entirely just to avoid hypocrisy. The only way that’s possible is to have no standard at all. Someone will always find a fault as none of us are perfect.

    It seems here in the US, they are playing by the rules governing them. That includes going to court to stop our government from forcing them to violate a standard, in which they believe is their religious right to not be forced into such a violation.

  206. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 9:29 am //

    And yet…..smartphones and cigarettes fly off store shelves. Often by people who really can’t afford them. Yes even people on assistance buy those things.

    Point being, poor people typically will prioritize what they are willing to spend money on. Amazingly enough, food and shelter are not always in the top spot.

  207. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 9:31 am //

    I agree. However do you think HL should be forced to pay $500 for something that lasts close to 10 years for an employee that only works there for two months and quits.

  208. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 9:35 am //

    So do you think the insurance company that HL buys insurance from, should be forced to pay for a $500 invoice for an IUD for an employee that only works there for two months and then quits their job and loses their insurance after they quit?

  209. Kevin Mortensen // April 2, 2014 at 9:40 am //

    Brad, you need to get your facts right….they run their business in accordance with their faith, which is hardly forcing their beliefs on anyone! Secondly, they aren’t trying to stop anyone from taking any medication, or telling their employees what medications that can, or can not, take….they are suing the Government, and rightly so, for being forced to supply coverage for drugs that their faith disallows! In real simple terms that even a liberal can understand, they believe if you want to take a certain drug, that’s fine, but then you pay for it! It’s the same thing as women screaming for their right of choice, then turning around and telling someone they need to pay for the choices the woman makes….yea, a lot of sense in that! What I don’t understand is, why so many people like you support a government that is stealing our rights at an alarming rate, and/or believe that someone has a right to something someone else has, or has worked for!

  210. what rights? their right to force their beliefs on everyone else.

  211. walldodger1969 // April 2, 2014 at 10:11 am //

    Most of the rants below are Bull crap// the owners do business with China, like over 93%… China has the harshest policies on pregnancy….. Don’t even tell me about their “Christian” principals…and how much they love life, based on their “BIBLE”……………..all BS….they are hypocrites. they love the green, IMHO I think they are the worst kinds of racists.

  212. they believe the drugs in question kill a living human being. well I don’t and you can’t force me to subscribe to your beliefs!!!! The 1st amendment gives me the right to NOT follow a religion,, just as it gives you the right to follow one. The real question here is whether the Greens have the right to use their power to force their morality on their employees, which they don’t!!!!

  213. And in what way does the ACA limit HLs religious beliefs? they are not being kept away from their beliefs by force, nor are they being told what to belief. Christians seem to think that religious liberty only belongs to them.

  214. No what’s wrong with America is you. If a non Christian company would try this you hypocrites would be screaming in the streets!!!!

  215. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 10:28 am //

    The cost of birth control covered by the plan is minuscule, and even if removed would not change the amount that they are paying for a policy. If anything I could imagine the cost going up, since the insurance company would have to make a new policy just for Hobby Lobby.

  216. Deminimis // April 2, 2014 at 10:33 am //

    Going by that logic, do you think that an insurance company should be required to pay for surgery for an employee who only works there for 2 or 3 months? If an employee has insurance then they are fully covered, it is not based on how long they work there, if they are covered at the time they require a service then they are covered.

    If hobby lobby wants to avoid this, then they should just stop offering health insurance to employees. Since Hobby Lobby feel that they need to provide health care, they could still give employees a flat amount to be used to subsidize their coverage in the private market. Why not contribute the same amount that they currently contribute to an employees health plan into an HSA account controlled by the employee. Then the employee would truly have free choice over the plan that they want.

  217. When the IUD cause a fertilized egg to grow.

  218. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 11:01 am //

    Ahh…so it’s their discrimination that you approve of! I get it. Being on the side of companies being able to discriminate puts you in the minority in this country. Kind of like the last two presidential elections.

  219. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 11:04 am //

    Ben, companies absolutely do have a choice in what portfolio companies you have in your 401K. It’s obvious that you have no clue when it comes to this case. Probably best you sit this discussion out.

  220. Did you check everything in your 401k. Do they have tobacco companies on there, How about natural gas, they make a lot of money but they also frack. An energy company that has a coal plant. Maybe it is Tyson’s Chicken, they put antibiotics in their chicken. What I am saying they were told a pharmaceutical company that makes a lot of money is part part of the plan. Very few people check further.

  221. guest3829 // April 2, 2014 at 11:48 am //

    Is $14 an hour really stellar pay as this says? Does it really afford you to be able to pay for an IUD? I think $14/hour will still make it hard to pay all bills and pay for an IUD.

  222. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 11:50 am //

    I don’t think HL can do that. If they provide coverage, they cannot just drop coverage without paying the fine.

    There is no provision for HL to drop coverage and up wages to cover insurance costs for employees. They would have to pay for the fine AND higher wages. I said all along that insurance should be a product that people buy….not tied to working at any particular job. The ACA did not want to cut those ties.

  223. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 11:56 am //

    Actually, IUD’s do have a failure rate, and when they fail, it is very dangerous for mom and baby including death. Personally, I would never use an IUD because of this and the fact that they often end up having to be removed because they didn’t stay in place and cause problems for the woman.

  224. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 12:00 pm //

    Curious, how could they be “violating a standard” when up until 2012, the morning after pill and the IUD were both covered under Hobby Lobby’s insurance plan. It was only after Obamacare came
    along that they decided that they wanted to fight against this.

    Again, Hobby Lobby covered the very things that it is now totally against right
    up until Obamacare said they had to cover them.

    In addition, through their 401K they’ve been investing for years in these same companies who’s products they are now fighting against having to provide to their female employees.
    Even more ridiculous is the methods of birth
    control that they say they are against because they cause abortion
    actually do NOT cause abortion.

    What “standard” is it that you might you be referring to?

  225. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 12:03 pm //

    1. How is Obama breaking his own law? He’s a government employee, and health care is a benefit of his job.

    2. A person is charged with double homicide because we (as a society) like to throw the book at people who commit horrendous crimes.

    3. The primary way in which Plan B works by suppressing ovulation; this is different from RU486, which is an actual abortifacient. It does thin the uterine walls as well, making implantation less likely in the event that fertilization *does* occur. But what it’s intended to do (and generally does do) is flood the body with progesterone to trick it into *thinking* it’s pregnant, thereby preventing ovulation and fertilization.

  226. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 12:04 pm //

    Each case is individual and must stand on their own merit. The government must show it has a compelling interest in overriding the right. Blood transfusions….they would have a strong case for overriding the right because someone’s life is at stake. In this case, HL is not wanting to provide a contraceptive that is widely available and inexpensive in the marketplace. They are not putting anyone’s life in danger by not providing it.

  227. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 12:06 pm //

    It’s ridiculous in the sense that in one case (HLs) there is no compelling interest for the state to force the purchase. Nobody’s life is at stake. In the case of a blood transfusion….their compelling interest is very strong because a life is at stake.

  228. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 12:06 pm //

    They’re not being asked to pay for contraceptives. They’re being asked to pay for *insurance* that *could* cover all contraceptives. It’s not Hobby Lobby’s place to decide that certain contraceptives shouldn’t count; what contraceptive a woman decides to use is between her and her doctor.

  229. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 12:09 pm //

    The rhythm method has nothing to do with making the uterus an “unkind” place. The focus with the rhythm method is to not have sexual intercourse near the time of ovulation to PREVENT the sperm from fertilizing the egg. It is ALL about timing, period.

  230. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 12:10 pm //

    What birth control a woman chooses to use is between her and her doctor. Hobby Lobby doesn’t get to have a say in someone’s medical decisions.

  231. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 12:13 pm //

    They CANNOT just stop offering insurance. That was part of the point of ACA, forcing ALL employers to offer insurance to their full time employees (part time has different rules.) Then they decided WHAT that insurance would and would not cover (Hobby Lobby already provided the insurance, it insurance they chose just did not cover those items/procedures.)

  232. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 12:15 pm //

    They’re not paying for contraceptives; they’re paying for insurance that *could* be used for contraceptives. They are in the craft business, and not medical professionals; what contraceptives a woman decides to use is between her and her doctor.

  233. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 12:18 pm //

    If we’re going to talk about data… Hobby Lobby refuses to acknowledge data which shows that Plan B *isn’t* an abortion drug.

    http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecwork.html

  234. Paranormal Skeptic // April 2, 2014 at 12:22 pm //

    You’d be shocked. Have you read some of the tea partier signs?

  235. Paranormal Skeptic // April 2, 2014 at 12:24 pm //

    Science.

  236. Paranormal Skeptic // April 2, 2014 at 12:25 pm //

    When they actually demonstrate their moral standing by not buying their products from China, a nation where forced abortion is the way of the land, they can get back at me.

  237. Paranormal Skeptic // April 2, 2014 at 12:25 pm //

    Except the drugs in question do not kill a living, human being. The owners of Hobby Lobby are not medical professionals.

  238. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 12:26 pm //

    Why can you not understand that the people APPLIED to work their with the understanding that this was a Christian company? And seriously, hearing prayers, even every day, does NOT force you to practice that religion. Even if I heard the Koran read every day, it would NOT make me a Muslim.

  239. Paranormal Skeptic // April 2, 2014 at 12:27 pm //

    Or the fact that about 90% of their stock is made in China, where mandated abortions are the norm.

  240. Clifton Hamilton // April 2, 2014 at 12:30 pm //

    Tons of employers pay workers more than the minimum wage. the minimum wage is by definition a minimum, not a maximum or a median.

    Very few employers sue to prevent their workers from getting adequate health coverage, which includes birth control (which is used for far more than simply preventing the birth of children).

    News reports the out of the ordinary, not the ordinary.

  241. They are being asked to support the killing of life. That is against their religion. Those doctors have 16 to chose from.

  242. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 12:45 pm //

    But they are NOT denying contraception. There is the regular birth control pill (with a variety of types available.) THAT IS COVERED. There is the shot. THAT IS COVERED. What isn’t covered is a back up plan that is only 89% effective and isn’t meant to be your REGULAR contraception and and an IUD, which if it fails, poses significant risks to both mom and baby. Even if it doesn’t fail, it can move and then require same day surgery to remove it.

    So out of TWENTY types of birth control, 16 are covered, but you want to say that they are not covering contraception. How about that for a big fat LIE. News flash: they aren’t covering condoms either! I had a friend who could not take contraceptives, and they had to use condoms. Should she have had the right to require her employer to cover their condoms? Of course not! There are CHOICES available, they are choosing NOT to cover some of the choices. They are not preventing the women from having contraceptives at all, just not covering certain ones (which the women could choose to pay for themselves.)

  243. billiegirl // April 2, 2014 at 12:49 pm //

    Hobby Lobby is not and cannot forbid their employees from using abortifacients, they just don’t want to pay for them whereby that would involve them in an act that violates their conscience based on their religious beliefs. The pay scale shows that their employees are very able to purchase abortifacients as they are not impoverished in a minimum wage job. And they choose to work there KNOWING what the atmosphere is there. It is there choice to work in that atmosphere or to leave it.

  244. Darren Wilkens // April 2, 2014 at 12:51 pm //

    They’re probably going by national average for part time for their stores.

  245. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 12:53 pm //

    What is so difficult for you to understand that they cover 16 different types of contraception. I have news for you, when I was in college and still on my parent’s plan, I had to be on birth control for a medical reason. My step-father was retired military, the insurance from the US GOVERNMENT did NOT cover contraception, for contraception sake. They would only cover it, if the doctor checked EVERY year that I had this condition. So, the US government did NOT cover contraception, but no one was up in arms over that!! And it was NO types of contraception, not just a couple.

  246. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 12:56 pm //

    His insurance is NOT beholden to Obamacare.

  247. billiegirl // April 2, 2014 at 1:00 pm //

    I have an idea, and it is a pretty dam good idea, one that I would be 100% in support of. Instead of forcing employers to provide health insurance that includes these controversial
    abortifacients, why don’t they opt to offer a free spay and neuter program instead? They can run a fair in the Spring like they do in my neighborhood for all the people to bring their animals, I mean, selves, to get them fixed to avoid unwanted puppies and kittens (I mean babies)! I would also 100% support my tax dollars going for these programs instead of forcing me to be complicit in abortions via use of the tax dollars that came out of my paycheck…which I see happening in the near future if common sense does not show it’s face soon.

  248. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:01 pm //

    News reports revisionist news, not the facts. The truth is never ordinary. People, not their employer, are responsible for their actions, including the ones who have unprotected sex that results in conceiving a child.

  249. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 1:01 pm //

    And if she MUST choose one not covered, she pays for it. Contraception is optional, and there are a variety of types to choose from. It isn’t like they aren’t covering ANY! I know people who are fighting against insurance companies so that their children can see a specialist for medically NEEDED surgery, and the US government is trying to FORCE a business to go against their ESTABLISHED beliefs to cover a COUPLE of contraceptives that it doesn’t cover already.

  250. Darren Wilkens // April 2, 2014 at 1:02 pm //

    The majority of Americans (over 70%) believe in God or are Christians. Your views on Christianity are delusional.

  251. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:03 pm //

    Then go get a better job.

  252. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:05 pm //

    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill

  253. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 1:05 pm //

    Actually, it also prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in the lining, which for them kills a human being. It doesn’t always prevent fertilization because sometimes ovulation has already happened. In reality, a woman should NOT rely on plan B, and should be using some other type of contraception anyway if she does not want to get pregnant.

  254. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:08 pm //

    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

  255. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 1:09 pm //

    Actually it depends on where in her cycle a woman is. Sometimes ovulation has ALREADY happened, and it prevents implantation. If you believe that life begins at conception, then preventing implantation is the same as an abortion.

  256. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm //

    Like the woman in the blue jacket that is against Hobby Lobby’s lawsuit, because they are a business, but she herself, although she to owns a business, believes that she has the right to her beliefs and and opinions when it comes to her views, and she believes that she has a right to voice those opinions at her business, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

    When she is reminded that Hobby Lobby is doing the same thing, she looks confused, and shuts up.

    Hypocrisy at it’s best. Just another example from the “Tolerant’ demanding from the “Intolerant” left!

  257. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:17 pm //

    You know this how mann?

  258. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 1:17 pm //

    http://www.planbonestep.com/faqs.aspx

    It is possible that Plan B One-Step® may also work by
    preventing fertilization of an egg (the uniting of sperm with the egg)
    or by preventing attachment (implantation) to the uterus (womb).

    Did you see where it says it may also work by preventing attachment?

    It just will not work if the egg has already implanted (which is about TWO weeks after fertilization has occurred. In other words, the pregnancy has NOTHING to do with your most recent sexual encounter, you were already pregnant.

  259. Tom Hensley // April 2, 2014 at 1:20 pm //

    Very good,my same feelings

  260. Clifton Hamilton // April 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm //

    Ummm… talking of revisionists…

    The battle is over CONTRACEPTION, NOT abortion. (i.e. PROTECTION)

    So your entire argument is moot, except the part where you’re projecting about revisionism.

  261. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 1:31 pm //

    Actually, the problem has occurred because the government is requiring the insurance company to cover things that Hobby Lobby is against. Prior to this, Hobby Lobby offered insurance from the same company and they were not required to cover ALL TWENTY types of contraceptives. You know, the whole KEEP YOUR INSURANCE thing? The insurance companies are NOW required to cover all types, and Hobby Lobby is saying I shouldn’t be forced to cover EVERYTHING.

    You know I should be able to purchase insurance that covers ONLY what I want/need it to cover and I should not have to pay increased premiums, because someone else wants to something else covered that I don’t believe in. So, if I don’t want to plastic surgery (not deemed medically necessary) to be covered than I shouldn’t have to pay a premium that includes that. In the same way, I no longer need contraceptives, so my PREMIUM should reflect that. If someone wants contraceptives to be covered than their premium should be a little extra each month to cover that. I shouldn’t be forced to cover something for someone else.

  262. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 1:35 pm //

    That is the problem, they WERE giving health benefits to their employees and were dictating those benefits, now they are saying that the government is dictating what benefits their insurance company MUST offer. Not what benefits they COULD offer and Hobby Lobby could take or leave, but MUST.

  263. Clifton Hamilton // April 2, 2014 at 1:36 pm //

    P.S. As I earlier stated… women use birth control and other forms of contraceptives for things other than birth control. It can be used to help treat cancer, and a host of other lady issues that have nothing to do with sex or irresponsibility.

  264. Clifton Hamilton // April 2, 2014 at 1:37 pm //

    persecution… but yes… you’re right.

  265. Tara Paisley // April 2, 2014 at 1:39 pm //

    I haven’t had health insurance for almost 18 years. I paid out of pocket for my first baby. Unfortunately my husband and both worked for places that did not offer insurance (and my place of employment would not have to offer it to me because I was part time and my husband worked for a small business with less than 10 employees.) For baby 2 and 3 I had to temporarily go on medicaid. Even with ACA, nothing would have changed for us.

  266. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:39 pm //

    Cliff, how am I revising the truth?

    Hobby Lobby are not against providing birth control though their insurance plans, just abortion inducing drugs. Obviously cliff, you are very much a victim of the revisionist news, as you do not know the facts.

  267. Clifton Hamilton // April 2, 2014 at 1:46 pm //

    A) it’s Clif.
    B) Even the morning after pill does not induce an abortion.
    http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/plan-b
    C) The Hobby Lobby pays a minimum $9.50, which is not 93% more than the minimum wage, so THIS article is revisionist.
    D) They’re opposed to many other types of contraceptives besides just Plan B.

    So please take a biology and a math course, read the actual news, and then come back and talk to me about being what “revisionist” means.

  268. Jeannie Shaw // April 2, 2014 at 1:47 pm //

    They could work anywhere they like if they feel they are being forced …that is their choice!

  269. Jeannie Shaw // April 2, 2014 at 1:48 pm //

    Amen!

  270. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 1:50 pm //

    Planned Parenthood gets millions each year to provide free birth control, so again, how are women being disenfranchised? Yes, again, the issue is not about HL offering birth control thorough their insurance plans, but the demand through the unaffordable obamacare, to offer abortifacient- A substance or device used to induce abortion.

    That is not birth control, that is not for the prevention of pregnancy, but the ending of pregnancy.

    Search out the truth, not what you are being told by the revisionist news.

  271. Jeannie Shaw // April 2, 2014 at 1:51 pm //

    You are wrong…It doesn’t just prevent ovulation it KILLS the fertilized egg!

  272. Erik Christensen // April 2, 2014 at 1:55 pm //

    Conservatives want to repeal 0bamacare because it’s obviously a disaster. It’s a job killing law that will cripple our economy.

    But… until it is repealed, the law is the law. And it doesn’t matter what your opinion is.

    How do you like the fact that the supreme court just struck down the caps on individual contributions to political campaigns? :)

  273. Ulrich Robin // April 2, 2014 at 1:57 pm //

    I get that you think they are being hypocritical. I just don’t think that’s really a solid argument and even the lawyers for Uncle Sam didn’t attempt to undermine their beliefs by calling them hypocrites.

    You or I don’t get to decide though what their religious beliefs are or when and how to follow them to that which satisfies their conscience.

  274. No company provides it’s own health insurance, all companies buy corporate policies from actual insurance companies. The ACA demands that all insurance cover these 20 forms of birth-control, if there was an insurance company out there who didn’t cover all 20 I’m sure Hobby Lobby would sign up for it. So yeah the ACA affects you because it forces changes to your policy.

  275. Clifton Hamilton // April 2, 2014 at 2:05 pm //

    It is not planned parenthood’s responsibility to provide women with free healthcare, it is their employer.

    My link clearly explained what Planned B does, and that is from medical doctors, not some random dude on the internet, a politician, or a preacher.

    FACTS are not what you want to believe, they are what ACTUALLY IS, according to BIOLOGY, not THEOLOGY.

  276. mharper42 // April 2, 2014 at 2:06 pm //

    Working retail in a craft store is not exactly rocket science OR brain surgery. It mainly involves good people skills and a pleasant personality. If you want to make lots of money, you have to get the education and/or develop the specialized skills that make you worth the income.

  277. That’s where you are wrong. Abolishing slavery abolished slavery, therefor it solved the problem of slavery. Unless your saying that slavery wasn’t an issue. We have a problem with our healthcare being too expensive. The ACA doesn’t address it, instead it forces people to buy Health Insurance, which doesn’t make our healthcare cheaper, and it has increased the minimum coverage that ALL policies must cover, which will make the cheapest insurance policies more expensive. Obama chickened out and we ended up with a half-baked compromise that just takes more money out of the pockets of the people and puts it in the hands of the corporations.

  278. Preston // April 2, 2014 at 2:24 pm //

    In reference to the “person” definition, Title 26 is the Internal Revenue Code (a.k.a. the tax code). In other words, this is the definition of a person for the purposes of the tax code only. This definition of person does not persist throughout the entirety of the US Code, only for the specific title in which it is defined. In not sure if this is deliberate misinformation or simply ignorance, but under US Code a person and a corporation are NOT the same thing as the article states.

  279. I’m just wondering. Does this mean that it is better for HL to close its doors (of which they have said they will do) and all those people be unemployed just to prove a point? I’m not discussing the legality of it, that’s the SCOTUS’ job. But they’ve said they’ll close the doors. At that point, what they pay doesn’t matter except to the people who work there. They pay above the minimum, they take care of their employees. Their stand is a religious one, true. But I’d love to hear from one person working for them who says “Yeah, I’d rather lose my job that I’ve had for XXX number of years just to force them to pay for contraception that may cause abortion”.

  280. hadenough57 // April 2, 2014 at 2:43 pm //

    In a free society such as ours, the “individual” is responsible for their health care, not their employer.

    In a socialist society, the employer can be forced to provide healthcare to people, including abortifacient.

    As for PP, they receive millions of tax payers dollars to provide reproductive services, that includes birth control. The only winners, when it comes to the money, are the insurance companies and places like PP.

    As for politicians and preachers, I listen to neither, as they can both be corrupt. Sad, that FACTS, are not what you are spewing, but the usual liberal BS as usual.

    Cliff, it is obvious that you are against the 1st amendment, and the exercise thereof.

    In the wise words of Winston Churchill,

    The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

  281. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 2:46 pm //

    And why can you not understand that there is no such thing as a “Christian Company”.

    A company is a “legal entity” that is created through incorporation or other legal means.

    Why do businesses “incorporate”? They do so for a myriad of reasons most importantly:

    No. 1: Personal asset protection. Both corporations and LLCs allow owners to separate and protect their personal assets.

    No. 2: Additional credibility and name protection. Adding “Inc.” or “LLC” after your business name can add instant legitimacy and authority.

    No. 3: Perpetual existence. Corporations and LLCs can continue to exist even if ownership or management changes.

    No. 4: Tax flexibility. An LLC is taxed at the same rate as a sole proprietorship while providing limited exposure to personal liability. Though profit and loss typically pass through an LLC and get reported on the personal income tax returns of owners, an LLC can also elect to be taxed as a corporation. When an entrepreneur sets up a corporation, he or she is taxed on both the individual and corporate levels. However, a corporation can avoid double taxation of corporate profits and dividends by electing Subchapter S tax status.

    No. 5: Deductible expenses. Both corporations and LLCs may deduct normal business expenses, including salaries, before they allocate income to owners.

    I have a business that generates a small amount of income each year. It is not incorporated and I report the income and pay taxes under my personal SSN. I am the legal entity, fully and completely responsible for the business I run.

    Hobby Lobby is a corporation. A legal entity that provides certain protections under the law and important benefits. Most people form a legal business structure to safeguard their personal assets. Once incorporated a business owner
    can conduct business without worrying that they might lose their home, car, or personal savings because of a business liability.

    You can’t hide behind your incorporation while pushing personal beliefs into a corporation. That’s against the law.

  282. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 2:59 pm //

    Tara, you need to learn the legal difference between a “business” and a “corporation”. Hobby Lobby is a CORPORATION. The US Government is doing nothing but requiring Hobby Lobby to manage their corporation under the same laws that millions of other corporations operate under.

    Hobby Lobby is trying to FORCE the US Government to carve out a single exception for them, which would open the door for all sorts of challenges to the Law based on religious grounds.

    And by the way, the argument that providing these contraceptives is somehow going against their established beliefs is a ridiculous argument considering that they offered these exact same contraceptives up until 2012, PRIOR to the ACA requiring them. Why were they providing them in their previous insurance plan if they are against their “established” beliefs? Were their beliefs “established in 2012??

    In addition, if these are their “established beliefts”, then why are they investing in these same companies that create these contraceptives? Why are they purchasing their inventory and profiting from China who’s forced abortions on their citizens?

    Absolute hypocrisy!!

  283. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 3:08 pm //

    Do you even understand how the ACA works? People who don’t get insurance from their employers will instead have to get it for themselves on an exchange. That’s it. Obama gets insurance as part of his job; he is therefore complying with the ACA.

  284. Clifton Hamilton // April 2, 2014 at 3:09 pm //

    You talk a big game about being misinformed and crap… yet you can’t even get my name right, and I already spelled it out for you. It’s even spelled out in my actual profile name.

    Regardless, you know nothing about the 1st amendment or socialism. You are filled with misinformation and talking points from your favorite talking heads.

    We have 9 very educated men and women responsible for interpreting the Constitution. They disagree with you.

    You should really stop projecting with arguments about ignorance and misinformation, because the number of false statements you’ve made is absolutely astounding.

    http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/300/379/case.html

    According to those 9 educated people charged with determining what the Constitution means, they have decided for the last 73 years that placing wage and benefit requirements on an employer is completely acceptable in our “free” society.

    But you disagree with them, and you’re the only one that really matters right? Because, to you, democracy is that you get what you want, not majority rule, right?

  285. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 3:10 pm //

    It’s a bluff. And they’re not paying for contraception that may cause abortion.

    http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecwork.html

  286. May or may not be a bluff. I’m not an insider. But if their beliefs are that life begins at conception, then a fertilized egg could be argued to be the beginning of life. From the website you quoted the egg is fertilized. It may also prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.
    That is the same as abortion and therefore against their religion.

  287. ROFLMAOAY // April 2, 2014 at 3:18 pm //

    Ben, you’re trying to compare an individual who contributes to their 401K through an auto-withdraw set up and a company with a CFO who works with an investment team in order to maximize company profits.

    I guarantee you that Jon Cargill, the Hobby Lobby CFO and his investment team knew exactly what was in their company-sponsored 401(k).

    They have oversight on which mutual funds are a part of the in Hobby Lobby’s retirement plan (401k) and make matching contributions into this fund they’ve set up. .

  288. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 3:20 pm //

    They’re being asked to pay for insurance. Insurance is part of the compensation package that they provide their employees; what the employees actually do with the insurance is the employees’ business, not the employers’ business.

    Salary is also part of the compensation package. Does the employer therefore also have the right to tell the employee what they can or cannot do with the money they receive from the corporation?

  289. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 3:27 pm //

    The site I quoted makes clear that the egg is NOT fertilized. Did you actually READ it, word for word?

  290. The line “It may also prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.” was copied and pasted directly from that site, so the question actually becomes did YOU read it word for word?

  291. James O // April 2, 2014 at 3:40 pm //

    Nor is any member of EITHER political party. Are they all then deserving of your outrage?

  292. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 3:41 pm //

    Your quote *only* applies to the copper IUD. As far as morning-after pills go…

    “Among those who took it on the day of ovulation or after, there were
    about the number of pregnancies that would be expected with no use of
    EC; if LNG were effective at preventing implantation, it would most
    certainly be more effective when taken after ovulation. A 2010 study 3 of ulipristal acetate (ella) found that at
    certain doses, it can decrease the thickness of the endometrium (by 0.6
    to 2.2 mm), but it is not clear that this would in fact prevent the
    implantation of a fertilized egg.”

  293. True and valid, but at the same time, the four words “it is not clear” could be enough to scare people. Keep in mind that religion is deeply seated in a person, and once a decision based on religion has been made, momentum will carry it a long way. And you still haven’t addressed the original statement of is it worth it if they do choose to close the doors. I know you said it’s a bluff, but you’re gambling all of those employees livelyhood. That’s a large gamble and you have to ask (no I’m not being a dick but you have to ask) what am I personally risking while gambling with someone elses lives. Legality will be decided by the SCOTUS. This is a forum of public opinion. For myself, it’s not a gamble I am willing to take.

  294. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 3:58 pm //

    Well, let’s be honest… they say “it is not clear” so as to cover their butts in case an instance does turn up in which it did happen. :)

    I agree that once a person has made a decision (based on religion, or not), momentum will carry it a long way. Psychologists have shown that people generally make a decision *first*, and then come up with fact to support that decision *second* – and will even ignore or minimize the significance of facts that contradict what they’ve already decided.

    Hobby Lobby *believes* that Plan B is an abortion drug, and refuses to accept any studies that show it really isn’t.

    I understand your concern that people would lose their jobs if Hobby Lobby loses. But are there no negative consequences to the possibility that Hobby Lobby wins? After all, if HL wins, you’ve now opened a floodgate. JW employers can refuse to pay for insurance that covers transfusions. Mormon employers can refuse to pay for insurance that covers lung cancer treatment. Islamic employers can refuse to pay for insurance that covers liver transplants. There are countless ways that employers might argue out of paying for something because it goes against their religious beliefs – and it’ll be the employees who suffer for it.

    I don’t want to see HL close their doors (and I honestly doubt they will), but I also don’t want to live in a country in which employees’ health care decisions are limited by their employers’ personal beliefs.

  295. HappyCatholic // April 2, 2014 at 4:03 pm //

    What people want if for women to control their own bodies and to assume the responsibility to pay for it. No one is trying to take away your birth control. You want it you should pay for it. It isn’t health care, it doesn’t cure disease or prevent illness, it actuall thwarts the body’s natural process. Feminists love to have control of their bodies and don’t want anyone to tell them what to do and they want the government to pay for it. Hypocrisy that blatant ought to make you hang your head in shame.

  296. HappyCatholic // April 2, 2014 at 4:07 pm //

    Right, so preventing implantation of a fertilized egg is abortifacient. Fertilized egg=person.

  297. HappyCatholic // April 2, 2014 at 4:12 pm //

    You don’t seem to understand the concept of religious freedom. Religion and religious beliefs exist outside of church. A person of faith who takes their faith and it’s doctrines seriously can and should be able to not participate in actions which violate that faith. To provide abortion inducing drugs through a plan which they are making available and subsidizing is what the objection is here. No one is trying to tell a woman what yo so with her body, feel free to poison yourself with pills all you want, it’s between you and your doctor. What you should not do is expect someone who believes it’s a sin to participate in the provision of the pills. That is religious freedom. Don’t knock it, someday they may come after your rights.

  298. sandy_becker // April 2, 2014 at 4:23 pm //

    fortunately, WHEN life begins is a highly personal & RELIGIOUS matter protected by the constitution, therefor, you do NOT get to base laws on what YOU believe. last time i checked, no one tried to pass a bill forcing women to have an abortion in this country, & in kind, i will thank you very much NOT to try & pass bills forcing women to full term, & starting a life that ends their’s, when it it could just as easily join another potential life/vessel on the verge of birth. a soul looking to join life wouldn’t bother with an aborted fetus, anyway. and if wobbly knobby is so offended by bc, they can work & man their stores themselves, because otherwise, providing it is the cost of doing biz in this country, period…

  299. HappyCatholic // April 2, 2014 at 4:38 pm //

    That is probably the stupidest thing on this thread, and that’s saying something.

  300. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:40 pm //

    NOT

  301. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:42 pm //

    it’s kind of like a “lemon law” for insurance. They can no longer sell overpriced crap policies.

  302. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:44 pm //

    seriously? It sounds like your case is just what the ACA was designed for.

  303. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:47 pm //

    They were fine with offering complete care until they were mandated to do it by a President they hate…If Bush had done it they would be all on board with it.

  304. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:48 pm //

    Slavery may be unpopular and illegal in he USA but it still exists.

  305. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:52 pm //

    Obey God as you see fit. BUT you don’t get to tell me (or anyone else) how to live.

  306. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:57 pm //

    you can practice you faith and talk about you faith. You can NOT force anyone else to live by the rules of your faith. What it the company where you work was bought by a Jehovah’s Witness, or an Orthodox Jew, or a Muslim? And the new owner wanted to make every one live by their religious rules…you’d be singing a different song then.

  307. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 4:58 pm //

    but they would have to participate in the prayer groups….yes?

  308. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 5:02 pm //

    “they” are not paying for anything. the insurance company does. AND “they” had no problem with it until they were mandated to do so by a President they hate

  309. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 5:03 pm //

    read the article – there are 401K options that are more church friendly

  310. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 5:06 pm //

    life at conception is a relatively new concept..it used to be life at “quickening”……………

  311. kwilson // April 2, 2014 at 5:28 pm //

    Yet Hobby Lobby has never evinced a problem with offering insurance covering Viagra, or subsidizing China’s one-child, mandatory abortion policy with its purchase of goods made there, in pursuit of its own profits…nor does Hobby Lobby` hesitate to invest in Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes the Plan B morning-after pill and ParaGard, a copper IUD, as well as Pfizer, the maker of the abortion-inducing drugs Cytotec and Prostin E2. Hobby Lobby’s mutual funds also invest in two health insurance companies that cover surgical abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in their health care policies….but Hobby Lobby wants an exemption from the law, on religious grounds. Hobby Lobby’s employees may not care, and may enjoy the benefits they accrue from working at a Hobby Lobby store…..but the precedent that this case is poised to set, concerns us all. THAT’S why people other than HL employees are protesting this misguided assertion, that HL’s owners’ religious views should be allowed to serve as valid reasons to manage the lives of others. It’s not just about ‘birth control’ – would a decision in HL’s favor, allow Jehovah’s Witness employers to refuse to offer insurance coverage for blood transfusions? Would Mormon employers be allowed to compel employees to tithe to the LDS church? Would Muslim employers be able to preclude employees from buying pork products, demand that employees convert to Islam, or be able to refuse to hire anyone who does not? Would a corporation whose CEO worshipped the Mayan gods be allowed to ritually sacrifice employees in pursuit of their gods’ favor in the form of higher profit margins? How much ‘religious freedom’ will corporations have? Most of us, especially those AMERICAN CITIZENS who don’t worship any deity, don’t really want to have to find out the answers to these questions by being subjected to losing our gainful employment in service to the religious views of our employers.

  312. Richard // April 2, 2014 at 5:37 pm //

    So in other words an employee who does not believe in God, does not follow the bible or other christian ideals would feel very unwelcome working there. Sounds like intentional religious discrimination to me.

  313. kwilson // April 2, 2014 at 5:42 pm //

    While the truth is too much for some people to handle – they much prefer their illusions.

  314. All valid points. I can also understand your concern with the varying religions, and I believe that is also a valid concern as well. Unfortunately, and again, momentum, I will have to follow with that is their right. And it is a fundamental flaw with the system. ACA was an unpopular law with a large portion of the population when it was passed, the number of people against it grew when it was launched as such a dismal failure, and now has been pushed back so many times that I no longer remember when it is supposed to be fully implemented. People have lost their full time jobs because employers didn’t want to have to pay for the insurance, people had their plans cancelled after “If you like your plan you can keep it, period.”, people are losing their doctors, the sign up numbers are unconvincing, and of those signed up how many people will follow through and actually pay for and receive coverage.
    HL’s threat of closing the doors was a poor decision on their part and I think you are most likely right. They like their money no matter what faith they are, and that money disappears if they close their doors. But the fact that the argument exists shows further flaws in the law. Covering life saving procedures is not the same as covering birth control in any form that is not required for a medical purpose. That in and of itself I can find fault in; not enough to throw a fit over, but flawed. Requiring a company who, correct or not, views some of those methods as against their religion (I’m somewhat surprised no Catholic companies in particular rose up since they were against birth control in any form) because it could cause an abortion to pay for those pills is wrong. There are other possible pills that are not on their list that work just as well. They may require a little more of the user, for instance taking a pill regularly or getting a shot, but they are equally effective and not against this particular employers religious beliefs.
    Personally, I think the whole system is more flawed now than it was before, and now it’s the “law of the land” and there is no arguing it. Requiring someone to carry insurance goes against everything in me. I accept that it may have been intended for the greater good, and that the idea may be on the right track, but this law, this tax, I don’t believe it has much of any chance of working. I know several people personally who have already said they will pay the tax at the end of the year for at least the next few years simply because they are in good health and the tax will be less expensive than the coverage they can get through the ACA.

  315. kwilson // April 2, 2014 at 5:46 pm //

    “What if want to practice some belief system which involves human sacrifice and unbridled sexual activity for 24 hours? Should I expect my employer to provide me with virgins for sacrifice and prostitutes for sex?”
    Good questions. What if your employer practices such a belief system? Would a decision that Hobby Lobby is exempt from following the law in this case, set a precedent for your employer to refuse to follow the law, and demand that YOU provide HIM with virgins for sacrifice, and prostitutes for sex in order to keep your job?

    It damn well could. Followers of other religions than Christianity own corporations too. Be careful what you wish for.

  316. kwilson // April 2, 2014 at 6:04 pm //

    Why is it that you aren’t interested in facts, Susan? Have you failed to look at your knitting needles’ country of origin out of complacency, or is it fear that your illusions about Hobby Lobby’s supposed lack of blatant hypocrisy, might be shattered? Or is it that you don’t believe China actually has a one-child policy which mandates abortion?
    http://geography.about.com/od/populationgeography/a/onechild.htm

  317. PhoenixM // April 2, 2014 at 7:13 pm //

    Let’s say you tell me that you’re going to kill somebody, and you ask me for a gun; if I give it to you, I am undoubtedly complicit in the murder.

    But let’s say I refuse to give you the gun because of my beliefs. You then ask me for the money to go and buy your own gun. Am I any less complicit if I give you the money to go buy it yourself?

    Hobby Lobby does not want to pay for insurance that could be used for something they think is immoral. And yet, they have no problem paying an employee a salary, with the complete understanding that they are therefore enabling the employee to commit that immoral act.

    Money is a form of compensation that you give an employee. Health insurance is another; the two of them together make up a compensation package. If you’re running a business, it isn’t your place to sit around worrying that an employee might be doing something with either his/her salary – or health insurance – that you consider immoral. They’re your employees, not your children.

    As an employer, you have to wash your hands of worrying *how* your employees choose to use their compensation, because it isn’t really any of your business. The money you pay your employees might fund a drug habit, or even something really horrible like a child pornography habit… and if you can’t keep a clean conscious about that possibility, then you have no business employing people in the first place.

  318. Ned Carter // April 2, 2014 at 7:38 pm //

    Anecdotal garbage.

  319. Mine is for 7 years and yes I think their insurance should pay for it as long as the employee has worked there long enough for medical insurance and as long as the person is there long enough to file the claim. Shoot if I was offered $14 an hour to start with no experience on that kind of job, I sure as hell would be staying there longer than a couple of months. Even if their insurance stipulates that they must pay back a portion should they quit before 6 months. It should be paid for under the insurance especially if that is the best source of hormone for someone using it for a medical condition.

  320. You are creating a problem that doesn’t exist. Neither Hobby Lobby nor I are telling you or anyone else how to live. We are just saying that if you make a lifestyle choice that is opposed to your employers faith, don’t expect them to pay for it. Take YOUR MONEY that YOU EARN and do what you will. I will not violate my faith by paying for your personal choices. Be an adult and pay your own way.

  321. But this isn’t about denying that worked for them an abortion. That they cannot do. They don’t have to provide money for one. The Constitution does say they have a right to religious freedom and they have the right to chose in this case. They are not denying anyone contraceptives. So your case is moot.

  322. Raji the Green Witch // April 2, 2014 at 9:48 pm //

    I don’t care WHAT the law says, corporations are NOT people. No corporation has EVER been drafted into the U.S. Military, No corporation has EVER come home in a flag draped casket, having died in service to our Nation. NO corporation has EVER received a Purple heart, a good conduct Medal, A bronze Star, a Silver star or any of the many campaign ribbons for the many wars which were fought to ensure that ALL Americans can continue to enjoy our freedoms. NO Corporation has EVER been tried, sentenced and imprisoned for violating ANY of the laws of the United State, although many HAVE been responsible for deaths and injuries or American citizens through carelessness, neglect and outright criminal behavior. When corporations start to behave like people and accept the responsibilities of people then and ONLY then will they be acknowledged AS people by me and most of the other PEOPLE that I know who ARE living breathing people who can and WILL eventually die. corporations essentially do NOT die, People die. Corporations merely become acquired, bought our by other corporations and when that happens, it seems as though those acquistions do not include the liabilites of the former corporations. Too often the new parent company manages to weasel OUT of those responsibilities, even though the law SAYS they DO get those along with the company. The principle that corporations are people essentially give the owners of those corporations MORE access to the halls of government than actual people. It violates the spirit of the principle, “one man one vote”. So you can TAKE 26 USC Subsection 7701 and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. the US Code is NOT the LAW that was voted on by the congress, it is a RULE that was put into existence by administrative rule making process and never submitted for a vote of the people.

  323. tekwrite // April 2, 2014 at 10:21 pm //

    Does Hobby Lobby FORCE anyone to work for them? For now, this is a free country…

  324. tekwrite // April 2, 2014 at 10:22 pm //

    And your meager point IS? NO being gay has nothing to do with civil rights.

  325. tekwrite // April 2, 2014 at 10:24 pm //

    HE does not use Obamacare!

  326. tekwrite // April 2, 2014 at 10:25 pm //

    What I find ODD is where are the people who whine about separation of church and state! The state is involving itself in the affairs of the church and religious organizations but where are those HYPOCRITES now? I cant HEAR you!

  327. tekwrite // April 2, 2014 at 10:26 pm //

    STFU. You disgusting idiot.

  328. tekwrite // April 2, 2014 at 10:27 pm //

    Oh really? Dont count on it being a bluff.

  329. tekwrite // April 2, 2014 at 10:28 pm //

    Are they FORCING people to work for them? NO. Try again please…

  330. sandy_becker // April 2, 2014 at 10:34 pm //

    sure they do. if healthcare/med-coverage is part of your salary, birth control & abortion services would be included in that package, as it has been for 50 years. why should women normally covered have to pay MORE for coverage that’d be included in a private plan. if the ceo’s have a prob with that, cut the damn check for what it’d cost to get 1 plan on their own, & then it’d be taken entirely outta wobbly knobby’s hands & conscience. tell ya, whatever she does with the $$, whether she signd up for aca or puts it onto her table/rent, they need to reimburse her for denying the full value of paying an employee partially via supplying healthcare. THAT’S THE CONTRACT WHEN YOU GO INTO BUSINESS IN THE U.S.! end of story. stop trying to create an issue that doesn’t effect you AT ALL. this isn’t a “christian” nation, it’s a country our ancestors FLED europe & asia to escape religious persecution, THAT’S why the “fathers” were SMART enough to make it one of the foundations of the constitution. is this REALLY what you wanna waste your time & MUCH smaller (than the koch bro’s 4 instance, thanx to the curmudgeons/hypocrites on the supreme court) political capital on, at a time the people you seem to keep sending to wash are robbing you blind, while make their fortunes on poisoning the planet, OUR planet? YOU’RE BEIN’ PLAYED!. stop getting so wrapped up into what the neighbours are doing & saying, & START PAYIN’ ATTENTION! we SHOULD be working together, NOT quibbling over PRIVATE matters…

  331. Sue Roediger // April 2, 2014 at 10:44 pm //

    Employers pay for insurance, not individual procedures. I am sure there are people of faith who pay part of their employees insurance – as is customary – that include procedures that they themselves. do not use or approve of.

  332. Marsha Hubbard Keith // April 2, 2014 at 10:54 pm //

    HOBBY LOBBY HAS INVESTMENTS IN ABORTION AND BIRTH CONTROL MEDICAITON THROUGH THEIR 401 K PROGRAM THEY AND THEIR EMPLOYEES DRAW MONEY FROM STOCKS THAT ARE COMPANIES THAT SELL THESE THINGS AND YET THEY WANT TO SAY THEY ARE CHRISTIAN IT IS WALLET FIRST THEN RELIGON IT SEEMS ALSO IF THEY THAT MUCH OF A CHRISTIAN CUT YOUR PRICES SO MORE PEOPLE CAN SHOP THERE, GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE POOR AND MAYBE HALF YOUR INCOME TO CHURCH, POOR, HOMELESS, AND SUCH AS YOU SAY YOU NOT IN IT FOR THE MONEY

  333. Dwayne J. Stephenson // April 2, 2014 at 11:54 pm //

    Employees are not ideological appendages of the owners of the businesses they serve. You have to be an American Christian to be too stupid to understand that.

  334. What about the news just out that the Green’s investments include stock in the companies that make the contraception that they are so up in arms about? Not ok for them to allow their insurance to provide it to their employees on Christian principles but ok to invest their millions in the companies that make it?

  335. Kevin, let me explain my facts in terms that even a conservative could understand. The company is offering a reward, gainful employment, in exchange for the employee abiding by their religious beliefs. If the company were to provide a drug plan, in compliance with federal law, how could the owner personally hold himself morally responsible if one of it’s employees chose to use medication which the owner does not believe to be acceptable? By the owner making the choice, as to which medications will be covered, he is asserting his religious beliefs onto his employees. I get your point that maybe some of these medications shouldn’t be covered, religious beliefs aside, but I think that is a different conversation.

    However appalling this may be, as I have said in other posts, what I find most disturbing is that the staff are made to read passages of the bible together, prior to starting work. This was mentioned in one of the articles for which the above article is in response.

    I don’t accept the notion that it is his company and he can do whatever he likes. He can’t. In the western world, the employment contract involves one party providing services in exchange for remuneration. Any other expectations would be subject to challenge in court, particularly if they violate basic human rights (read “him forcing his religion on to others”).

    Lastly, I would like to say that I don’t know anyone who works for Hobby Lobby, I have never set foot inside their store, and I don’t know if any of the information provided by any of the previous articles is accurate (you know how the liberal media can be). I am simply responding with my thoughts on the information provided. I thank you for your feedback on my comments.

  336. It is ironic that you, a conservative capitalist, continually quote a former leader of the UK, a land, which by American standards, is socialist. Additionally, this man served as prime minister more than two generations ago. His ideology arguably may have been appropriate in his day, but the world has changed quite a bit since then.

  337. penny0314 // April 3, 2014 at 1:04 am //

    Well, it is quite clear that Hobby Lobby hires only those who are Christians. If you are not a Christian, don’t apply. Bible study to start staff meetings? You’re okay if you can stand them ramrodding their version of western churchianity down your throat? Bad enough that they want to control your actions if you’re raped, but they’re willing to create a religiously hostile workplace. What if you don’t believe in the Bible? What if you’re a Hindu, or a Unitarian, or a Buddhist–are you forbidden from working there? This article makes me think even less of Hobby Lobby than I did before!

  338. penny0314 // April 3, 2014 at 1:07 am //

    I think you need a visit with the EEOC. Employers do not have the right to dictate religious belief/practice in the workplace… Try checking this out. Same category as discriminating on race, age, or gender.

  339. penny0314 // April 3, 2014 at 1:09 am //

    Corey, Christian values are questionable. I have been cheated more by “Christians” than any other group–so much so that if I see a cross or a fish on a business, I find another business because I know I’m likely to be cheated at the “Christian” business. Meanwhile, Corey–I suggest you check with the EEOC.

  340. penny0314 // April 3, 2014 at 1:17 am //

    I tried in 2008, 2009, and 2010 to buy health insurance. I was a high-tech, highly skilled RN. Because I had a pacemaker, I was literally laughed at for even trying. When I became ill in June, 2010, I could not afford the testing, so I had to wait until I was so ill I knew I’d get care. Turns out, I had endocarditis with multiple septic pulmonary emboli. Could have been treated and completely cured if I had been able to get care when it started. But, no insurance, so I couldn’t. Wound up on full disability, living on Social Security in HUD housing. Even after savings, I left $200K in medical bills. Had I been able to get insurance, I could have been treated when I started running those 102 temps in the evening and I would still be working. Gee, but you think the ACA is evil. BTW, if a woman is raped, she has the right to not want to be pregnant with that bastard’s kid. Sorry you don’t believe we should have adequate healthcare.

  341. penny0314 // April 3, 2014 at 1:20 am //

    See my remarks above. Before the ACA, we COULDN’T GET health insurance if we had preexisting conditions. The ACA would have prevented my situation, and thousands upon thousands of others.

  342. I would greatly appreciate the name of any entities which would shower me with virgins and prostitutes. My doctor says I need that. But they all need to be screened for STDs first. This could be the break I’ve been waiting on.

  343. I think you got it bass ackwards there, Hoss. HL isn’t trying to force their beliefs on anyone. It’s the folks pushing the owners to do something against their beliefs. I think you need to flip your lenses around. Apparently, you put ‘em in the frame backwards last earlier this week when you dropped them and they popped out.

  344. sugarmag418 // April 3, 2014 at 2:50 am //

    I might take their religious argument a little better if most of their products did not come from China which has state forced abortions. It is ok to buy and do business with people who are having and forcing abortions but not ok to include certain birth control in your health care plan. I also wonder why they did not sue the states that already required these birth control methods be covered by insurance before.

  345. They never offered complete care only health insurance. And their problem isn’t with offering insurance, it’s with the 4 out of 20 choices for birth-control. Is their anyone who is going to need to sue more than 16 different kinds of contrceptive?

  346. Other countries are not subject to the laws of the USA.

  347. Sue Roediger // April 3, 2014 at 4:17 am //

    People are held enslaved in this country. Illegally of course … but it exists. http://wgbhnews.org/post/human-trafficking-modern-day-slavery-america

  348. Ulrich Robin // April 3, 2014 at 8:30 am //

    Did I forget to mention lottery tickets too?

  349. They will gladly pay for the insurance which is being forced on then when they take off the 4 abortion contraceptives? Prove to me that hose 4 are safer than any other pill.s or what ever. You can’t. A doctor has to prescribe them and they all have safety issues themselves. A

  350. A lot of companies in China now are being run by Christians. The Chinese government does not own businesses for the most part. They do business with companies not the Chinese government. These companies even have church there on Sundays.. That point is moot. How do you know what they had before hand. Apparently they didn’t have any of the 4 on any insurance plan.

  351. merrilldavis // April 3, 2014 at 1:35 pm //

    Apples and Oranges is used to compare two dissimilar things. The employee satisfaction rating is all Hobby Lobby has to worry about not some bleeding heart who thinks it’s wrong of a private business to conduct said business as they see fit. What aren’t you getting here Phoenix? Maybe people should have a more responsible attitude towards sex in the first place, knowing that their are risks to having unprotected sex in the first place instead of treating it like another low risk recreational activity. You have sex you risk creating a life. Yes it’s you’re “Choice” to end that life if you choose but that really does call into question the moral fiber of someone who would take a life because “Oh Shit I didn’t want any kids, but the sex felt good” When the company’s insurance covers all but 4 forms of contraception, and those 4 are the Post-baby created kind… What are you really fighting for?

  352. merrilldavis // April 3, 2014 at 1:38 pm //

    The Plan B pill is also called “the morning after pill” it does not prevent ovulation…. Please research what you are talking about before posting. Thanks.

  353. Matthew Anliker // April 3, 2014 at 1:39 pm //

    I think you are the one that doesn’t understand. The government cannot establish a national religion nor can it keep you from practicing yours. That’s it. You don’t get any special privileges because you believe in something that someone else doesn’t. Seriously think that through. Since there is no way to prove that any religion is in fact actually true(for arguments sake, in your case) Anyone can claim anything and say its their religious beliefs. The law is equal to all parties, they may not like it but they don’t get to ignore it. They do not have to provide the insurance they choose to do so. If they don’t like the law then don’t provide insurance.

  354. merrilldavis // April 3, 2014 at 1:48 pm //

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]

    This is the most abused Amendment in the Constitution… I believe Hobby Lobby is using it right. There’s a legal mandate for force a company built on Christian beliefs to provide something against those beliefs. Why is there such a disconnect here. Congress has passed the ACA which is a law that is telling you even if it’s against your beliefs you must pay for this….

    Full Definition of RESPECTING

    1

    : in view of : considering

    2

    : with respect to : concerning

    See respecting defined for English-language learners »

    See respecting defined for kids »

    Examples of RESPECTING

    So let’s take the word respecting and change it with it’s synonym here.

    Congress shall make no law CONCERNING an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

    Hobby Lobby is well within their first amendment rights to fight this as they base their business of their religious beliefs which should have no laws concerning them being made. Then again we abuse our constitution everyday.

  355. merrilldavis // April 3, 2014 at 1:52 pm //

    It doesn’t say that Matthew. It says congress shall make no laws respecting religion as in considering or concerning. Which means NO LAWS…. A secular society can not pick and chose which rights it gives it’s people concerning being able to follow their religious beliefs and be a working and healthy society.

    ANd this is coming from a guy who HATES Religion.

  356. sassandahalf // April 3, 2014 at 2:35 pm //

    Citation, please.

  357. sassandahalf // April 3, 2014 at 2:40 pm //

    Is it scary when they mandate handicapped accessibility? Is it scary when they mandate non-discrimination of women like yourself? You live in a religious bubble that chooses not to acknowledge any part of the human condition that doesn’t stay inside the lines in your brain. Those lines were put there by narcissistic “leaders” who need people to agree with them and fork over money. You have been chumped!

  358. Matthew Anliker // April 3, 2014 at 2:57 pm //

    Merrill you are missing a key word or two, “an establishment of”. Any law can not unduly favor one religion over another nor can they favor religion over non-religion, and vice versa. To your other point, sure we can, and we do all the time. I think everyone can agree that you can’t drown your kid in a bathtub because you “believe” he is possessed. Society has decided that that form of religious belief can not be tolerated. There are others, abortion, while they don’t like it, is legal, so are contraceptives. They have options to alleviate their problem with the law, they just want special treatment instead of choosing one of them, which the first amendment does provide for.

  359. Darren Wilkens // April 3, 2014 at 3:10 pm //

    Do your own research. I’m not your teacher, librarian or parent.

  360. What should we do? Make it illegal?

  361. sandy_becker // April 3, 2014 at 4:13 pm //

    you’re not listening to me. what a women does with her salary, & her healthcare comes under that category, is NOBODY’S biz, period. she’s entitled to spend/use it in any way she sees fit. you couldn’t possibly be that stupid not to get the irrefutable logic of that. like i said, let them reimburse her degraded hc policy by raising her salary by the amount (at least) of her company hc policy. & btw, you’d like to deny her her religious choices & freedoms by dictating a bill based on yours, so you’re the one “mootin'” points here…

  362. But you are wrong. It isn’t your health care until it is given to you. I wish they could deny people like you health care insurance. You don’t deserve it. But they are then penalized if they don’t. You don’t pay for that penalty and you don’t pay for the majority of the insurance they do. You have no say what is in it. They and the government do. They are having their freedom taken away not you. You are a nobody in this case.

  363. moxieroxie // April 3, 2014 at 6:24 pm //

    I have worked at Hobby Lobby for the past three years. I am one of the most liberal minded, non religious, mouth filter broken kind of person and they sure haven’t fired me yet. Like in any business, it’s a choice to work there. They do not preach to us, are tolerant of all attitudes as long as it doesn’t interfere with business. Granted there may bible quotes on one bulletin board in the break room but one doesn’t have to read them. They let us be us.

    ” Besides closing their stores on Sundays, other principles include
    starting staff meetings with Bible readings, paying above minimum wage,
    and using a Christian-based mediation practice to resolve employee
    disputes. With these practices and policies in place and long standing,
    the Christian-based values that the company was founded on and continues
    to run on are no secret to the employees, who choose to work there.”

    At NO time has my store had pre-shift prayers or a Christian-based mediation. If there’s a problem, you get together with the manager and work it out. If it did have a religious tone, I’d be out of there in a New York minute but that’s not how it is.

    Yeah, for being closed on Sundays regardless of the reason is a great thing. If you’ve never worked retail, a Sunday is a true miracle. The door sign reads “We are closed on Sundays so our employees make spend time with their families and worship”. So every Sunday morning, I wake up and say “Praise Jesus I ain’t gotta go to work!” and roll over and go back to sleep.

    The pay — $9.50 hr part time, $14 for dept mgrs. Not a bad gig.

    Hobby Lobby owners are entitled to feel however they want. I respect their opinion but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. May the result of the court case be whatever it may be…

  364. moxieroxie // April 3, 2014 at 6:40 pm //

    I work there. It’s not like that. See my above post.

  365. Carolyn Putney // April 3, 2014 at 6:45 pm //

    Maybe all of you who are against Hobby Lobby would just feel better if the company went out of business? That way, the now former employees would have no medical coverage at all. Because they now have no job, they are forced to sign up for Obamacare but because they have no income, will qualify for Medicaid, and you can help support them and their wanted abortions and/or drugs with your tax dollars. And you can also support them and their entire family via Medicaid. Your reasoning is flawed on so many levels it’s not funny. And, as far as what is legal? Let’s talk about Obama who changes the law, THE LAW, whenever it doesn’t suit his own agenda. You guys make me sick! Anything for the killing of a baby.

  366. BeccaLeigh // April 3, 2014 at 7:20 pm //

    I know reading can be a really difficult, especially for the illiterate products of our current public school system, but it clearly states that Hobby Lobby already provides birth control and they don’t ask their employees what their personal reasons are for taking it…..when I was in high school (and still a virgin btw) I was put on birth control to regulate my period since I was getting it twice a month……I did not take Plan B or abortifacients, but the typical birth control pill and my insurance covered it back then so that is not an issue

  367. BeccaLeigh // April 3, 2014 at 7:26 pm //

    Catholic hospitals are not for profit and even though liberals are fond of the idea that they can force people to do things against their conscience, I guarantee that if Catholic hospitals were told that they had to provide abortions, they wouldn’t just give in and start doing what you want…..the country would instead lose 1 in 6 of the hospital beds we currently have because we would close our doors…..the choice is up to you but keep in mind that they also provide high risk pools for patients that have pre-existing conditions (and you thought that was only because of Obamacare!!) and operate on the idea that our income levels should not dictate what type of health care we receive

  368. Do you know every company YOUR 401(k) provider invests in?

    Didn’t think so. Neither do they. Because the invested companies’ stocks change rapidly, nobody bothers to keep up. It’s why we use providers in the first place.

  369. We all know this is neither about Commiecare or the rules. It’s about the fundamental transformation of America.

    There is no room in the new America for any religion but liberalism and those sub-religions liberals approve of. Absolute obedience with the official religion of new America is paramount; the State is your new god. Comply, pay obeisance to the almighty benevolent State, or suffer.

  370. PhoenixM I’m guessing that you are one of the Obamaites that thinks everybody owes you something and are mooching off of the working class that is suffering due to the supossed Affordable
    Care Act. Granted an employer can’t discriminate against a person for race, creed, religion or lack of but there are plenty of places for you to work that doesn’t believe as HL does. So maybe you should just shut up and go find one of those places to go work that doesn’t pay as well as HL and provides you with abortion drugs as the ACA requires. Apparently your mother didn’t believe she should have been supplied with those abortion drugs or you wouldn’t be here using up good decent peoples oxygen. Just saying.

  371. PhoenixM // April 3, 2014 at 8:50 pm //

    This “Obamaite” made slightly over $100K in 2013, fvckw@d; that number is pretty fresh in my head since I just did my taxes.

    But once upon a time I wasn’t well off. And I remember what it was like to struggle paycheck-to-paycheck. I remember never going to a doctor because I had no way to afford it. And maybe, just maybe, I can sympathize with people who have less than me… and maybe, just maybe, I have no problem with my tax dollars going to help those who are less fortunate.

    But then again, I have morals.

  372. PhoenixM // April 3, 2014 at 8:55 pm //

    “Post-baby”? Uh, Plan B works by preventing ovulation (and therefore, obviously, fertilization). There’s no baby there; the eggs are all still in the ovaries, safe and found from the sperm.

    Why can’t you guys get it through your head that most forms of emergency contraception are NOT freaking abortion pills?! They flood the female body with progesterone so the body already thinks it’s pregnant, thereby preventing ovulation.

  373. ShockWitch // April 3, 2014 at 9:58 pm //

    Uh, no. What you are saying is that it is okay for an employer to force prospective employees to practice their religion or not be considered for hire. That is the definition religious discrimination. They cannot bring up religion in the interview and cannot force religious practice to keep a job. Period.

    “That federal law (Civil Rights Act of 1964, nicknamed “Title VII”) prohibits:

    Treating applicants or employees differently based on their religious beliefs or practices – or lack thereof – in any aspect of employment, including recruitment, hiring, assignments, discipline, promotion, and benefits (called “disparate treatment”);”

    “Discrimination. Federal, state, and even local laws prohibit employers from making job decisions based on protected characteristics such as race, sex, disability, religion, and so on. If an employer decides not to hire someone for one of these reasons, the applicant may have a discrimination claim. (For more, see Nolo’s articles on workplace discrimination.)”

  374. KW Crosby // April 3, 2014 at 10:39 pm //

    Wow. I’d be insulted by your comment if it weren’t for the fact that it makes you
    look so foolish. Of course I researched this. Here is one of my sources: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/17/health/religious-groups-equate-some-contraceptives-with-abortion.html
    Here’s an idea — why don’t you research what you are talking about before posting.

  375. leslie domear // April 3, 2014 at 10:39 pm //

    Government is already a weight around the neck of American enterprise without having to control a their religious beliefs too. A company doesn’t even have to include medical insurance as an employee benefit. What Hobby Lobby should do is increase employee salaries even more and eliminate health insurance. It would be more beneficial for them, and employees could choose whatever birth control they desired. As an individual, I despise the fact my tax dollars are funding abortions. The government’s primary goal in reality is to control and mandate what a company can do and cannot do. It’s called ultimate power– and the only thing stopping a complete government takeover of all our individual rights and freedoms is the Church, and those willing to stand up for their biblical principles. Thank God for Hobby Lobby. The government is treading where they have no business being in.

  376. merrilldavis // April 4, 2014 at 12:38 am //

    You skipped the explaination of how the sperm and egg meet in Health class didn’t you? Because that’s not how I learned it. The sperm doesn’t meet up with the egg in the womb all the time. Sometimes the egg is already in the womb and sometimes the sperm make it into the fallopian(SP) tubes and fuse with the egg there. The Plan B pill flood the womb with Estrogen yes but it doesn’t mean the egg hasn’t already been fertilized. It means that the womb will then reject the second part of the process where the egg attaches to the uteural wall causing the egg to be ejected once it dies. It could be fertilized it could not be. I really think you need to go back and learn how the biological process of a woman’s mentral cycle works. Her period is the time when the unfertilized egg and all the lining of her womb are being ejected so the process can begin again. SO how would the Plan B pill stop that and make her think she’s pregnant and then go and have her normal period? Sorry 1+1 still adds up to two. So while they make their claims on what it doesn’t do, it’s suspect because of how Reproduction actually works. Someone’s lying and I don’t think it’s NATURE….. Which is a proven system that’s been around Since time began. Also it’s already stated that it’s NOT TO BE USED AS REGULAR BIRTH CONTROL.. So it’s a sometimes contraceptive.. But Mandating companies to pay for it is going to increase it’s use and cause problems as women will stockpile it and use it cause they were able to get it. AS I said before how about MEN and women take a little personal responsibility here. Hey guys they have these things called Condoms, I’ve used them for years, they are 95 percent effective and no OUR MEDICAL INSURANCE WON’T BUY THEM FOR US. But they also cost lots less than women’s contraception does and the tech is improving so you can actually feel what’s going on (Never personally bought into that one since I’ve never had a lack of sensation in the brands I used…. Oh shit I just admitted I’m not a non sex having prude) Oh and the only kids I have are the wife’s step kids. Do the Math guys.

  377. PhoenixM // April 4, 2014 at 12:53 am //

    Sperm can live inside of a woman for up to about 5 days after sex; if she ovulates at any point in those 5 days, fertilization can result.

    If an egg was already en route when sex takes place, then Plan B won’t do anything to stop it. But if an egg was not already in transit, Plan B will ensure that an egg is *not* released during those 5 days that the sperm are still hanging out in her tubes hoping that an egg comes by.

    That’s how Plan B works: it stops ovulation *if* ovulation has not already occurred.

    http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecwork.html

  378. Tierney Israel // April 4, 2014 at 4:06 am //

    So your argument is that because they do a few good things, it negates this bad thing? That’s not really how it works. They could pay their employees $100 per hour but it would not negate the fact that their religion shouldn’t dictate what prescriptions their employees are allowed to use.

  379. GorgoSmogMonster // April 4, 2014 at 11:22 am //

    I’m sorry you’re so proud of being a drain on society that you think everyone should. I’m sorry you think that ultra extreme cases prove your point. You only like the ACA because it benefits you, and you don’t give a rats ass that for the 350 million people it not only doesn’t help, but hurts.

  380. Angie Dansie // April 4, 2014 at 3:15 pm //

    The working class is getting affordable healthcare due to the ACA. The rich are the ones “suffering” because they have to part with a touch of their money

  381. Angie Dansie // April 4, 2014 at 3:19 pm //

    Billie: Bill O’ puppet-mouth ;). Doctors are going to start kicking patients out of ther offices because they now have health insurance? Death Panels!!!!!!!! Kenya Birth Certificate!!!!!!!! 911 was an inside job by the Democrats!!!!!!

  382. sandy_becker // April 4, 2014 at 3:34 pm //

    my god, it’s like arguing with shrubbery that have all the logic of a rabid cat…

  383. Sue Roediger // April 4, 2014 at 3:42 pm //

    Slavery is already illegal. We need to be more aggressive in enforcement.

  384. Sue Roediger // April 4, 2014 at 3:44 pm //

    Until a few years ago Hobby Lobby had insurance that DID cover the things they now dispute. I think the real motive is more about resisting Obama.

  385. Sue Roediger // April 4, 2014 at 3:45 pm //

    The insurance they used to offer did cover those meds…………their objection is a new thing

  386. Sue Roediger // April 4, 2014 at 3:48 pm //

    no one is asking religious people to violate their faith……the idea is that no one can force their faith and practices on someone else.

  387. Brenda Ramsey // April 4, 2014 at 11:57 pm //

    The ACA exempts Muslims from being required to participate. The government isn’t establishing a national religion, or keeping Muslims from practicing theirs. Why are Christians, and Christian businesses held to a different standard?

  388. Amschel Leonid Bauer // April 5, 2014 at 12:39 am //

    Take a look at what I said. I said “if they inform you during the hiring process” and “if you agree.” Never did I imply that force or unequal treatment was involved because we can all agree that it’s wrong. If you’re told “this is what we do here” and you agree then it’s free association. Do they coerce people into actually praying during the meeting, or do they fire people for not participating in a prayer? It doesn’t seem so.They say it’s their policy that the meetings will be opened with a prayer.

  389. Matthew Anliker // April 5, 2014 at 12:51 am //

    Before you claim something is true, you know like religion, you should check to see if it is.

    “Are Muslims “specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the penalty tax for being uninsured,” as claimed in the message?

    The answer is no. This is a fictitious claim. There is no provision specifically exempting Muslims or any other religious group from mandated health insurance in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010.”

    http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/muslims_exempt_health_insurance_mandate.htm

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp

    Took me all of 30 seconds to figure that out. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true. The only difference between christians and muslims is that muslims are about 1000 years behind christians. Doesn’t make either of them right though.

  390. Diana Reed MD // April 5, 2014 at 9:32 am //

    You are aware that HL invests in those pharm companies that produce the very abortion drugs that they contest in their SC case, for their company retirement plans? They invest in birth control pills, Plan B, and the drugs used to induce an abortion. Boom! So it’s okay for a corporation to have deeply held religious beliefs when it comes to paying for something, but when it comes to investing and making money, the only religion is the false idol, money. Equal rights are for individuals, and for women who bear most of the responsibility for family planning and raising children, their rights and needs should prevail. Corporations are not people, no matter what the SC says.

  391. Brenda Ramsey // April 5, 2014 at 10:50 am //

    http://traditionalvalues.org/content/home/36482/are_muslims_exempt_from_obamacare

    http://libertyandpride.com/muslims-exempt-from-obamacare/

    http://www.examiner.com/article/if-you-are-muslim-you-can-opt-out-of-the-obamacare-health-care-reform-laws-with-no-penalties

    Took me about 30 seconds to find information disputing what you posted. There’s a lot of conflicting information out there. It comes down to who do you believe. I don’t consider Snopes to be the final authority on anything.

  392. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:10 am //

    I wonder how many Democrat representatives are hiring Republican staffers… and vice versa of course.

  393. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:12 am //

    Exactly…

  394. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:12 am //

    Corporations are owned/managed/ran by people.

  395. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:13 am //

    Would a Republican be welcome to work in a Democratic Reps staff???

  396. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:14 am //

    That was priceless! But I’m sure it is all still lost on liberals.

  397. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:30 am //

    The problem is that if they did not provide health insurance, they would be heavily fined… by the government. Whatever happened to the USA?

  398. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:31 am //

    So we should get rid of planned parenthood then?

  399. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:34 am //

    And then you get better benefits too…

  400. Brad Wags // April 5, 2014 at 11:36 am //

    Don’t believe everything you read on the internet dear.

  401. Well then hope the lawyers can point that out, and also hope that our justice system doesn’t care if people can change when they get new information.

  402. Have you written to your representatives? That would be a good start. Tell them you’re willing to pay more so we can send our military into foreign countries to catch traffickers. You talking about a problem that is bigger than the US that’s going to requires global effort. While your at it you can also tell your representative that our doctors shouldn’t be forced to slave away for years at school only to find out that they now have to provide their time and effort for free for other people’s benefit,

  403. Sue Roediger // April 5, 2014 at 4:00 pm //

    they are only objecting because a man they hate (the President) is behind the idea.

  404. Sue Roediger // April 5, 2014 at 4:02 pm //

    it is happening IN the USA –
    What are you talking about – – doctors working for free?

  405. It’s not happening IN the the USA, the USA does not condone it, average citizens are not participating in it, it’s happening around the world. It’s part of the bigger global battle against evil and it’s being perpetrated by international crime syndicates, people with a lot of power and no regard for the law. Sure there may be the occasional US Citizen who leads his own crime ring, but they are not majority perpetrators.

    Based on your comments about the “the man behind it” I feel it’s safe to assume that you are liberal and support a full fledged socialist healthcare system. One in which the customers do not have to pay for services rendered and materials consumed. Meaning that you do not want to take money out of your pocket to pay the Doctors and Pharmaceutical researchers and the whole host of other people whose jobs are to spend time and energy to contribute to providing you with something that doesn’t naturally exist.

    Did you know that many of the conditions that citizens face are the results of decades of poor diet and exercise? Meaning people make poor choices which lead to bad health in future.

  406. Matthew Anliker // April 5, 2014 at 6:21 pm //

    You are right, there is a lot of conflicting information. There is fully researched information by professional fact checkers, then there is the tripe put out by PAC’s to scare people and collect donations. Even the sites you use tell you that it is unclear if they would be able to be exempt. The hoops that they would have to jump through are so enormous that it is unlikely ever to occur. In fact in 2010 none of the groups that had gotten exemptions were muslim, they were all some form of christian.
    Notice how your 3 sites don’t have any relevant citations on where they get their information. The only one that has anything takes you to yet another RW site the says the exact same thing. Saying something over and over doesn’t make it true.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/may/30/chain-email/dhimmitude-page-107-health-care-law-exempts-muslim/

    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/dhimmitude-and-the-muslim-exemption/

    How about these two? I’m guessing you don’t like Snopes because they shoot down so many of those cockamamie claims that you hold so dear. No religion should get any exemption because what they believe is irrelevant.

  407. Sue Roediger // April 5, 2014 at 6:34 pm //

    Even citizens who live “healthy lives” sometimes get sick, or injured, or suffer catastrophic illness. I would be dead if I has to pay “out of pocket” for a recent illness. I ended up having 3 surgeries on my knee……..because of insurance I was able to get treatment. Without it I would have died of the infection. People do pay through their premiums — the doctors still get paid by the insurance companies and the insurance companies profit as well. I still don’t know what doctors re talking about who are providing “their time and effort for free”.

  408. No doctor works for free, yet, but have you heard the chants of the advocates of Universal Healthcare? “Everyone deserves to be taken care of.” “Healthcare is a right.” I’m not saying that Insurance is bad, or getting healthcare is bad. I’m just saying people don’t have the “right” to say someone else should provide for them for free. And many of these people who claim they have a “right” to someone else’s services will kick and scream about paying higher taxes so the government can pay instead.

  409. Danny Vinson // April 5, 2014 at 7:18 pm //

    They also force employee’s 401K money to be used on companies that sell abortion equipment

  410. Sue Roediger // April 5, 2014 at 7:19 pm //

    You seem to think “the government” is some evil entity. it is made up of citizens, most of whom are just working folk. We pay taxes to have things we could never provide individually, roads, bridges, police, fire fighters, postal service etc. Even if we had “universal healthcare” it would not be “free” it would be tax supported. My social security and Medicare are nor free, I paid into SS when I was working and I still pay a premium for Medicare. Medical insurance needs to be accessible for everyone …… consider the alternative — the people who would suffer and die. Even in universal healthcare doctors and other medical personnel still gat paid for their services.

  411. Kim Reed Edmunds // April 5, 2014 at 11:01 pm //

    Very well put!

  412. So Hobby Lobby should not stand up for their principles but the employees should? If the employees don’t like the rules Hobby Lobby has they are more than welcome to look for another job. Why should Hobby Lobby go against their morals by providing “birth control” that they feel is not actually birth control but is an abortion pill. They’re a Christian based business and if you don’t like it don’t work for them. If I was looking for a job and the Muslim owner forced reading the Koran I wouldn’t bother to apply….that would be my choice. We need to stop catering to every person that whines boo hoo when they want to Make their own rules regarding a business they don’t personally own. And frankly what’s wrong with paying for your own damn birth control? If you don’t have the cash keep your legs closed or your D**k in your pants, like the rest of us had to do before this Obamacare crap.

  413. Just because some moron made it a law doesn’t make it right. That’s why they’re fighting it. The freedom to look for another job is there, people need to stop assuming we are a socialist country. We live in a country of choice and if you own a business and you don’t believe in abortion then why should you have to change your morals because of an unjust law.

  414. They aren’t breaking the law, they’re taking it to court because they own the business and it goes against their principles. They supply 16 other forms of birth control and that’s not enough?

  415. Julie Lynch Handy // April 5, 2014 at 11:17 pm //

    You don’t have to work there if you don’t want to read the bible. I’m sure if you do work there you can skip that part of the day.

  416. Apparently there is a difference of opinion, Hobby Lobby is well within their right to challenge what goes against their beliefs. Ever hear of the constitution? You know the written laws Obama keeps breaking to suit his own agenda.

  417. That bastards kid could be given up for adoption to one of the thousands of people that can’t get pregnant. By the way abortion because of rape is extremely low. Look it up there are many sources to support that.

  418. He breaks the law every time he changes his signature healthcare law without going through Congress. Take some history lessons.

  419. OK so let say the government makes it so people who are handicapped are no longer worth societies support so they decide with the majority of Americans supporting them that the government should put them to death. Now this has been added to the ACE would you not say if someone believes killing someone by the government for their selfish reasons is murder and they believe murder is wrong. Now just because it is provided as a subheading of the ACA does not take away from the fact that if I paid for the ACA I would in essence be paying for murder. Even if it is less than a penny that goes from their pocket to the providers of the said murder it is still supporting the murder of that person even if a miniscule part. Therefore under the Constitution, they have the right not to participate in that murder.
    Just because this concept is being applied to already living people the concept does not change when applying it to killing a baby, and they have the right not to provide the funds that go to paying for the insurance that goes against their constitutional rights of religion.

    So to say someone has to pay for the ACA they are in essence paying for everything the ACA does and they will not subscribe to anything that murders someone inside the womb or not.

  420. SS is going bankrupt even though the Citizens pay for it. SS is just the idea that you take a part of your paycheck and put it away. Why couldn’t you take the money you put into SS and put it into a high yield savings account or invest it into stocks?

    Postal service? Also going bankrupt, FedEx and UPS are comparable alternatives, at least for packages, that turn a profit.

    Is Medicare your only option? What happens when politicians change your plan to something you don’t like? What if someone else offers the same plan for the same price with a lower premium?

    I’m not anti-Government, I’m anti-politicizing EVERYTHING. Did you know that in California, the State Government is trying to regulate who can use the bathroom?

  421. I hate to tell you this but if she has already ovulated then the egg is already in the tubes and she can get pregnant. At this point tricking the body into thinking is is already pregnant will only make the fertilized egg not attach. AKA killed, murdered, deceased, end of life. Ergo, the lawsuit.

  422. nogeeksadmin // April 6, 2014 at 1:19 am //

    Fuck off

  423. nogeeksadmin // April 6, 2014 at 1:21 am //

    IUD does to kill anything. Thanks for playing.

  424. nogeeksadmin // April 6, 2014 at 1:22 am //

    Hear this, JACKASS. Get your religion out of our bedroom and out of our doctor’s office. You hypocritical, WHINY, Christianist!

  425. KW Crosby // April 6, 2014 at 2:25 am //

    There is a difference between opinions and facts.
    And since when do corporations have beliefs? Are you OK with your employer being in charge of what you do in your private life? Don’t you have your own beliefs, as a human being? Shouldn’t they take precedence over a corporation’s “beliefs”? I don’t know about you, but upholding the constitution for the benefit of corporations over the benefit of human beings is not a big priority for me.

  426. KW Crosby // April 6, 2014 at 2:29 am //

    You certainly chose an apt name, monster. A person with serious health problems is a “drain on society”? The ACA isn’t hurting 350 million people. That’s complete BS

  427. KW Crosby // April 6, 2014 at 2:35 am //

    More BS. It’s exactly as easy to get pregnant by non-consensual sex as it is by consensual sex. Why don’t you try getting facts from reputable sources instead of from right wing fanatics?
    And honestly, only a sadist would force a rape victim to carry the evil rapist’s spawn inside her own body for 9 months.

  428. Sue Roediger // April 6, 2014 at 3:46 am //

    oh good Lord ! I am thankful for SS because I was young and stupid and barely made end meet .. it is a good thing for me that the money got socked away before I got my hands on it. When the “crash” happened some of my friends with investments and 401K saw pretty hefty losses. I use the postal service because it is way cheaper than fed ex or ups . If there was a better plan for less money ($90 a month) I could sign up for it. One can also get supplemental insurance – which I have done, since Medicare only pays 80% I don’t believe SS will go bankrupt – http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/
    AND I live in CA and the issue is safe accommodation for everyone, including transgender people. The regulation is about people using the bathroom they feel is right and safe.

  429. PhoenixM // April 6, 2014 at 8:41 am //

    Good thing Plan B doesn’t kill any babies – or even fetuses, for that matter. It prevents ovulation (just like all other forms of birth control), in order to prevent fertilization from occurring during that 4-8 day period *after* sex in which live sperm are still hanging out in the uterus and fallopian tubes hoping to get lucky.

    I bet you didn’t even know that that’s how Plan B worked, did you? Congratulations on showing that you have an uninformed opinion.

  430. PhoenixM // April 6, 2014 at 8:47 am //

    Dude, you really don’t understand how this works.

    The body thinking it’s already pregnant doesn’t stop an egg from attaching; the attachment is the simple physics of the egg getting stuck on the lining of the uterus. All the surge in progesterone does is stop ovulation (which *is* controlled by hormone levels).

    http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecwork.html

  431. mannannie // April 6, 2014 at 8:48 am //

    This is the third time I have posted this link providing info on my original comment. It keeps getting deleted. I wonder why? See next post

  432. babykitty // April 6, 2014 at 1:26 pm //

    i wanted to say that I have been working for Hobby lobby for over 2 months and have yet to see them force their religion on me. There is no mention of Religion at all when i am at work. I make almost as much as my sister who has worked for Walmart for years and i have only been with HL since beginning of Feb.

    If someone don’t like it then don’t work for that company. But my team at HL is fabulous and I love working there and the religious diversity is amazing.

  433. Brad Wags // April 6, 2014 at 1:46 pm //

    Some truth to your fiction:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2014/04/02/hobby-lobby-owners-can-have-a-401k-and-first-amendment-rights/

    And remember, 401(k) plans are directed and invested by employees, not by employers.

  434. twyla do // April 6, 2014 at 3:14 pm //

    I believe their CHristian values are a great thing, but no one has ever answered one question that I’ve always wondered about…everything sold in their stores comes from China. They do not buy American products as a rule. If they are devoted to the cause of standing up for the rights of the unborn, as is evident with their stand against these drugs that abort fetuses, why is it okay to buy from a country with an abortion mandate? It seems just a little strange to me that this seems quite alright. If they truly want to stand against abortion, why do they not care about the sweat shop workers in China who have no choice but to be forced into an abortion should they get pregnant after one child? Then there’s the matter of not buying American…in my town, they do NOT get paid as well as this article states. It’s closer to 9.00 an hour starting (I asked one of their employees who was helping me). Why do they not buy American products? There’s only one answer – profit.

  435. twyla do // April 6, 2014 at 3:21 pm //

    they are only against AMERICAN abortion. Every product they sell comes from China where there is an abortion mandate after one child. That doesn’t seem to bother them. They still garner more profit than only buying American products. SO while they are taking this stand, I wonder why they’ve never changed their buying policies to reflect their disdain for abortion completely? The exception to their policy no doubt.

  436. twyla do // April 6, 2014 at 3:24 pm //

    how many adopted kids do you have?

  437. twyla do // April 6, 2014 at 3:31 pm //

    you may want to check your facts. This is a lie spread by right wing pundits to dishonor the president (who they still think is muslim). If you take the time to READ the law, instead of depending on Beck and the rest of “those” you’d be much more educated about the provisions of the ACA.

  438. twyla do // April 6, 2014 at 3:33 pm //

    your sources are all right wing propaganda. Why not try reading the ACA itself? Then you’ll understand the ‘sheeple’ reference…

  439. twyla do // April 6, 2014 at 3:49 pm //

    IUDs are on the list of things they don’t approve of, and they do not, in fact, cause any type of abortion, so they’ve actually taken it a couple of steps too far by adding that form of contraceptive. IUD’s have been in use in this country for 40+ years, and are used when a woman has a hard time with the alternate ‘drugs’ that end up, often, causing breast and other cancers.

  440. You said, “if HL wins, you’ve now opened a floodgate. JW employers can refuse to
    pay for insurance that covers transfusions. Mormon employers can refuse
    to pay for insurance that covers lung cancer treatment. Islamic
    employers can refuse to pay for insurance that covers liver transplants.
    There are countless ways that employers might argue out of paying for
    something because it goes against their religious beliefs – and it’ll be
    the employees who suffer for it.”

    Every one of the instances you used deal with keeping someone alive. In the instance of Abortion,we are not opening the door to stop the law from overriding keeping people alive we are talking about killing someone. That is the crux of the issue. That is the final outcome of RU486 as it has been held up to do ever since it first came into use in Europe. Now that they run into problems here in the U.S., they now try to say it does not terminate a pregnancy. Very convenient.

    The fact is, it will only work for up to 7 days. WHY? Because, after 7 days, the BABY has implanted and grown to the point that RU486 does not harm it any more. I hate to tell you this but if you really did understand the pregnancy cycle you would have known this. Fact, an egg cannot be fertilized until after ovulation. Fact, if the ovulation has already happened, The RU8486 will not stop the egg from becoming fertilized. Fact, RU486 will work even then because of the other things it does to the body. See the official national, ProChoice organizations own web site on how it works for these other things. Look under, how it works.

    https://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/facts_mifepristone.html

  441. Ken Swan // April 6, 2014 at 5:17 pm //

    a company does NOT get an 80%+ approval rating FROM EMPLOYEES if the employees are unhappy………. did you bother to READ the part that stated that the complaints ARE NOT coming from the employees, but rather from people WHO DO NOT WORK FOR HL… or do those facts just totally cause your head to explode like a good liberal?

  442. Devin Kristoffer Ackerman // April 6, 2014 at 5:29 pm //

    Don’t be silly, Mr. Anliker. “Anyone can claim anything and say its (sic) their religious beliefs?” Hobby Lobby is counted over and over again as one of the very most virtuous American employers there is– as stated by others, just ask the perfectly happy *actual employees* of the corporation.
    To suggest that the *owners* of HL think they “can claim anything and say its (sic) their religious beliefs” makes it sound as though you think these people are casually inventing their own religion in order to ‘tell women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.’ But they’re inventing nothing. Surely you’ve heard of Christianity? It’s pretty widely known in the US, and is the most-practiced religious practice worldwide; it holds pretty specific tenets (hardly haphazard HL inventions) when it comes to ‘women’s rights over her own body.’ Simply put, she ought to respect and protect it, because it’s a work of God. I think even those of you who apparently think HL has invented this “strange” cult called “Christianity” can nevertheless agree that a woman ought not to be forced to do anything with her body against her will. Hobby Lobby agrees with this wholeheartedly enough to pay her very generious minimum wages for stocking cinnamon candles. HL is known to respect women’s rights, and men’s, too, in accordance with their first amendment rights. But like about half of Americans, the company doesn’t believe that the slaughtering of an inconvenient conception is a right that neither WOMEN NOR MEN are given by God. And in America, that’s built-in as a good enough reason not to be forced to foot the bill for a practice they find vile for religious (not to mention plain ethical) reasons. My job doesn’t give me my traditional Jewish holidays off work, because it doesn’t have to. I choose to continue working there, but just like the rare HL whore who hates condoms, nobody’s forcing me to work there.

  443. Devin Kristoffer Ackerman // April 6, 2014 at 5:58 pm //

    hahaha, ‘snopes.’ I’ll BET that only took you half a minute to find the tawdry back-up drivel. The plain fact is that despite the fact that our nationals keep getting threatened and literally blown to bits by gangs of angry Muslims, Christians are easy targets for religious persecution, because they’re some of the few Americans left with the balls to actually believe things from which buffoons like Whoopie Goldberg or Barbara Walters think they’ve graduated (…to nothing in particular).
    Though the active Christian population in the US is by far in the minority, Christians are treated like a majority block of white hillbilly ‘bigots’ (that is, they have the maturity to hold to their convictions in a post-post modern American moral whirlpool where any amorphous predilection becomes a “right” as soon as Katie Couric bats her spider-lashes). And these “Christians” also don’t fight back! You can burn down their churches and deride their Jesus Christ with whatever filth you can think up, and Christians STILL don’t plant car bombs or hijack airplanes or threaten ethnic populations or declare war on entire religions or massacre thousands in the name of _______ (fill in the blank!)

    ISLAM. Nevertheless these are the religious convictions that we accommodate rather than honor 2000+ year old established Christian ideals which PROMOTE female liberty and the inherint value of life. Hey Anliker, cool references. But your comments about religion being “real” show that you’re little more than a modern fool discounting almost all of human thought and practice. Then later when you say that nobody ought to get religious accommodations because “what they believe is irrelevant?” Tell that to every last mind who composed and amended our Constitution. These men would forgo any conversation at all with a ignorant little girl with unfounded opinions like you, just like their eyes would roll at Obama’s unAmerican requirement that a Christian or any religious observer be required to afford its VOLUNTARY and STATISTICALLY PLEASED employees that which denies their first amendment right to FULLY and FAITHFULLY practice religion. So long as it doesn’t maim, blow up, or behead those it disagrees with. There is One God, and Obama is His prophet.

  444. mannannie // April 6, 2014 at 9:19 pm //

    No, because you obviously did not read my Forbes link, otherwise you would have seen this:

    You may be thinking that it must have been beyond Hobby Lobby’s reasonable abilities to know what companies were being invested in by the mutual funds purchased for the Hobby Lobby 401(k) plans—but I am afraid you would be wrong.

    Not only does Hobby Lobby have an obligation to know what their sponsored 401(k) is investing in for the benefit of their employees, it turns out that there are ample opportunities for the retirement fund to invest in mutual funds that are specifically screened to avoid any religiously offensive products.

    To avoid supporting companies that manufacture abortion drugs—or products such as alcohol or pornography—religious investors can turn to a cottage industry of mutual funds that screen out stocks that religious people might consider morally objectionable. The Timothy Plan and the
    Ave Maria Fund, for example, screen for companies that manufacture abortion drugs, support Planned Parenthood, or engage in embryonic stem cell research.

    Apparently, Hobby Lobby was either not aware that these options existed (kind of hard to believe for a company
    willing to take a case to the Supreme Court over their religious beliefs) or simply didn’t care.

  445. Matthew Anliker // April 6, 2014 at 11:37 pm //

    Devin, please pay attention. I didn’t say that HL was making up their beliefs(even though they are doing just that, albeit made up many, many years ago). Giving this exemption would open up a can of worms that would mean other groups could claim the same thing. There could be no rational argument against them because they are all just beliefs and nothing more. Plus the fact that their belief that the drugs they oppose aren’t actually abortion drugs, puts more holes in their argument. Never mind the fact that they have been investing in the same companies that make the drugs for years. Your company doesn’t give you jewish holidays off, and? Why would it? It shouldn’t have any say in how you practice your religion. If you want to take it off great. Same as HL, if someone wants to be, in your words, a “whore” why is it any of HL business? It isn’t. Follow the law or don’t, but if you don’t there is a price to pay. Their beliefs have no bearing on the law.

  446. PhoenixM // April 7, 2014 at 12:06 am //

    You’ve completely confused Plan B (which is just a really strong dose of progesterone, just like what’s found in normal BC pills) and RU486 (an actual abortion drug).

    Plan B has to be done immediately, because the way it works is to prevent ovulation; since sperm can live inside of a woman for up to 5 days after intercourse, a woman can theoretically become pregnant if she ovulates within a week or so after intercourse – and Plan B prevents that. It can do nothing to prevent pregnancy if ovulation already occurred prior to the drug being taken.

    RU486 can be done as long as 7 WEEKS after conception; it does, in fact cause abortions. Interestingly (or not), it kinda works the opposite way Plan B does, in that it essentially blocks the body from seeing the pregnancy-related progesterone, making it think that it has *already* lost the fetus, thus triggering the flush that actually does lose the fetus.

    For someone with such a strong opinion, you’re awfully (maybe willfully?) ignorant of the way these drugs work.

  447. Matthew Anliker // April 7, 2014 at 12:15 am //

    Wow, touched a nerve did I? “Buffoons” “spider lashes” “modern fool” “ignorant little girl”. Again you missed my point. Islam is no better or worse than christianity. It’s just immature. Unfortunately, they are in that period of immaturity where they enforce their beliefs on other unwilling people. Much like the christians did centuries ago. The problem is we happen to be in a time where we are really good at killing people.
    I love how you think that the founding fathers would be on your side of this argument, and that my opinions are unfounded. The more we learn the more, the more we figure out the less realistic that book becomes. What people thought about the world 2000 years ago is proven each and every day to be uninformed. For the record, I find islam to be even more laughable than christianity, but it isn’t like an impartial observer couldn’t make the argument that maybe you could see why they wouldn’t like us very much. You know, drone strikes and all that Iraq/Afghanistan stuff, and the Shah and Israel, and Syria and Beirut and gitmo….. etc etc. But what do I know, I’m an ignorant little girl with unfounded opinions. Let me know if you want to learn how to really insult people, OK big boy.

  448. SS is great sure, that article is great, if over simplified. Problem is the greater social/political environment that’s making it appear, to me and people of similar thoughts, that we’re not going to have the workers to keep funding SS, aging population and our faulty complex tax codes. For me, I’m on the fence with Medicare. I’d much prefer a private-enterprise solution, but that requires a whole lot more customer proactivity. As to crashes and losses, people I know haven’t lost much and some of their long-term investments are still better off than when they started investing.

    I live in CA, too, and I get that people should be able to use the bathroom. I just don’t think the Government should be able to regulate it, apart from desegregating the bathrooms. I do not think that anyone has separate men’s and women’s bathrooms in their own homes, and unisex bathrooms already exist in plenty of places. I find it suspicious that the State, in charge of enforcing any laws related to bathroom use, would try to set precedent by ruling on bathroom use instead of deregulating and simply stating, it’s up to the people to decide for themselves which toilet to use.

    But I think it’s time we agree to disagree. It nice to have a debate that doesn’t end name calling. Thanks.

  449. Brad Wags // April 7, 2014 at 10:15 am //

    Well, yes, it kinda does. And it also points out the following… “What does Mother Jones’ or Mercury Public Affairs’ 401(k) plan look like? Those are the employers of Redden and Ungar, respectively. Surely those 401(k) plans invest in stocks of oil and gas companies, defense contractors, private equity firms, and other evil conservative power bastions. Have Redden and/or Ungar done a forensic investigation of the mutual funds they are invested in? Should I call them hypocrites for daring to invest in a 401(k) which invests in a mutual fund which invests in a multinational company which happens to own an oil company? If not, consider that the Hobby Lobby employers have one more degree of separation even from Redden and Ungar. Our two intrepid reporters affirmatively chose to invest in merchants of death when they picked out their 401(k) choices. All Hobby Lobby is doing is providing the platform for employees to make those same choices themselves in partnership with plan administrators.”

    At the end of the day, what difference does it really make what they do with their IRA… the issue is about health benefits. The IRA minutia is just a distraction.

  450. Brad Wags // April 7, 2014 at 10:35 am //

    Yes they are… the SCOTUS said so.

  451. funkilla // April 7, 2014 at 12:39 pm //

    The ACA requires insurance companies to offer birth control on all plans because the plans can’t discriminate on the basis of religion, or lack thereof. Government cannot make a law favoring one religion over another, so they can’t NOT include birth control on sole basis of religion. Plus Plan B doesn’t even work if the egg is fertilized. That’s why its not 100% effective. The abortion pill isn’t covered. Plus HL offers insurance plans that cover 16 contraceptives that DO reduce the the thickness of uterine lining to prevent implantation, so on that point they are already in the wrong.

    So if ALL insurance plans includes all legal forms of contraceptive, then HL has three choices… They don’t get special privilege to have special Christian based plans. One, they can close down HL and put lots of people out of work. Two, they can choose to not offer ANY insurance. Or Three, offer insurance and let employees decide whether or not to use that part of the coverage.

    If Mormons can accept having alcohol in Utah restaurants although the consumption of alcohol is against their beliefs and choose whether or not to order it, then HL can accept insurance that covers all legal forms of birth control and employees choose whether to use that coverage or not.

  452. Dennis McClendon // April 7, 2014 at 12:56 pm //

    Utah doesn’t make Mormons pay for other people’s consumption of alcohol. Obamacare demands that HL pay for abortifacient.

  453. Dennis McClendon // April 7, 2014 at 1:00 pm //

    Hobby Lobby is not dictating what prescriptions their employees can use, only that they don’t want to be required to pay for certain drugs. The only dictator here is the federal government who dictates that Hobby Lobby MUST pay for drugs that it considers abortifacients.

  454. funkilla // April 7, 2014 at 1:24 pm //

    HL isn’t paying for abortifacients. Insurance companies pay for it *when the service is used.* just because HL pays for a portion of the insurance plan, it’s up to the employee to exercise that coverage. Just because HL gives a paycheck, it’s up to the employee to decide how to spend it. If they don’t like the basic insurance plan, then they don’t have to offer insurance at all.

  455. Dennis McClendon // April 7, 2014 at 1:51 pm //

    Simple answers to your questions:

    Would a decision in HL’s favor, allow Jehovah’s Witness employers to refuse to offer insurance coverage for blood transfusions?
    Yes. Anyone should be able to offer compensation as they wish.

    Would Mormon employers be allowed to compel employees to tithe to the LDS church?
    No. That isn’t offering. That is seizure of assets.

    Would Muslim employers be able to preclude employees from buying pork products.
    No. That is prohibition.

    Would Muslim employers be able to demand that employees convert to Islam?
    No. That would violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That isn’t freedom of worship. It is compulsory worship.

    Would Muslim employers be able to refuse to hire anyone who does not (convert to Islam)?
    No. That would also violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That isn’t freedom of worship. It is compulsory worship.

    Would a corporation whose CEO worshipped the Mayan gods be allowed to ritually sacrifice employees in pursuit of their gods’ favor in the form of higher profit margins?
    No. That isn’t freedom of worship. That is murder.

    How much ‘religious freedom’ will corporations have?
    Well, it’s a “free” country, so they ought to have complete freedom to operate in whatever manner they wish as long as they harm no one. Their decision regarding what to give you in compensation for your labor is between the two of you. If you don’t like the deal, you are free to decline it. It sounds like you don’t like the deal, so you want to try to force them to give you a deal that is better for you. That’s great in a socialist society and there are plenty of them out there. If you don’t like American liberty, maybe you would be happier in Germany or France.

    If you are going to use logical extension to make an argument, you should use actual logical extension. Instead, you extend into completely different logical constructs.

    The simple principle is that in a society that is built upon liberty, people should be able to do whatever they want to do as long as they harm no one else in the process. People should be free to spend the money they earn as they wish. People should be free to worship as they please, living their lives in accordance with their religious beliefs. In the liberty expressed in the U.S. Constitution, it is not the place of government to decide these things for us for us.

  456. Dennis McClendon // April 7, 2014 at 2:05 pm //

    Well that makes it all so easy then. Once the government forces HL to give their money to support the insurance company HL is off the hook because it isn’t their money any more? Brilliant! Oh, and they can opt out of offering insurance, but then they are fined for that choice.

    The point is that it is not a service HL wants to offer. The government is compelling them to offer something they consider morally repugnant. They should not be compelled to offer it or be fined if they don’t.

  457. funkilla // April 7, 2014 at 2:18 pm //

    If they don’t want to offer insurance, they don’t have to offer insurance. Just make everyone part-time, and let the government foot the bill, right? Medicaid offers contraception. Hell of a lot cheaper than 18 years of welfare, right?

  458. Sue Roediger // April 7, 2014 at 2:45 pm //

    thank you too…it is indeed good to discuss without getting ugly.
    Be well!

  459. I have 2, not that it has anything to do with this or is any of your business…. How many adopted kids do you have? I said there were many couples out there that can’t have kids and would love to adopt….I actually was ableto have kids but adopted in addition. Trying to throw me under the bus won’t work.

  460. Corporations have beliefs when they are founded by A MAN that started a business and had beliefs of his own. I personally have plenty of beliefs of my own and my employer doesn’t have anything to do with my private life and neither does this issue. I certainly don’t expect him to pay for my birth control. If Hobby Lobby is offering insurance why should they have to pay for someone elses birth control if it goes against the belief of the owners. Why don’t we make corporations or businesses pay for everything like our mortgage, property taxes, and anything else we may have to pay, when will people like you stop sticking your hand in the pockets of everyone else. Start your own business and pay your employees birth control if that’s what you want…, it’s a free country….or at least it used to be.

  461. sweetreat // April 7, 2014 at 6:43 pm //

    and they also invest heavily in a 401K that has huge chunks of the investing in companies that produce the products they are fighting against. HYPOCRITES!

  462. Not at all. I have been following it since it became legal in Europe and all the literature available has always called it an abortifacient. Not until long after it came over here did that designation change. It is like I told you, Chemical companies are willing to play fast and loose with everything from how any of their chemicals work to how many people died from using it. So when they ran into a whole lot of opposition they changed what they call it and supposedly how it works.

    So if it is not what they originally claimed it is then big surprise, THEY LIED. That is the problem with the left wing in America. They have noting on which to base any morality at all on other than possibly consensus of opinion. So if lying accomplishes its purpose, then it is considered OK. That is where we run into the whole thing with HL. They do base their ideas and concepts on something that never changes, God’s word.

    What it boils down to Phoenix, is no matter what you say or how they try to redefine what they say about it, there is still plenty of doubt mostly caused by the liberals. You never one time addressed what the National ProChoice organization has posted for all to see on their web page. It says it aborts babies period. This is what has been said about RU486 ever since it was first mentioned in the press in Europe. It is not something that all of a sudden showed up out of nowhere. So I offer proof of what it does, at least what has been understood as to what it does ever since it was introduced. So you can say I am ignorant all you want but facts show it could be either way. This is the problem. If it could possibly kill even one baby then it is evil and will be fought against by Christians.

    I suggest that instead of trying to convince people here how it is supposed to work that you first call all your liberal organization to at least try to get their act together and they just might be taken a little more seriously.

    Upshot is the arguments fall short on being able to show there are no abortifacient being paid for by the ACA. Because of that fact, it goes against Christians Religious rights in not taking part in killing a baby.

  463. KW Crosby // April 7, 2014 at 7:33 pm //

    You don’t have a basic understanding of what’s going on here. First of all, corporations are LEGALLY separate from the people who started them by definition. Hobby Lobby pretends that the fact that they are paying for part of their employee’s insurance means that they should not be “forced” to allow coverage for these 4 contraceptive methods which they mistakenly say are abortifacients, in spite of the fact that they willingly employ people who may disagree with these religious beliefs and are free to purchase those items with the money the company PAYS them. In other words, they are OK with the money that comes out of their right hand going to contraceptives but not OK with the money that comes out of their left hand. Furthermore the company allows their investments to hold stock in the companies that manufacture these contraceptives. And in spite of all this hypocrisy, it is possible that their lawsuit will result in the widespread denial of women’s rights to many aspects of healthcare. It won’t end with Hobby Lobby and their 4 pet peeves.
    And it’s not about “expecting your employer to pay for your birth control” — It’s about being covered by health insurance which meets the standards set by the ACA. The reason this is even an issue is that contraception has been deemed an important part of preventive health care. In other words it is worthwhile to cover it because its availability is so important to a person’s basic health, like getting a physical or a prostate exam or a mammogram.
    Let me use a different example: A lot of misguided people think that vaccinations are the work of the devil — if one of those people happened to be your employer, would it be OK for them to refuse to cover your baby’s vaccinations on religious grounds?

  464. Erik Christensen // April 7, 2014 at 7:53 pm //

    There is nothing wrong with a company using it’s money to help politicians who are good for business.

  465. PhoenixM // April 7, 2014 at 7:58 pm //

    My God. You’re still not getting it.

    Plan B and RU486 are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT drugs. The page you linked me to is about RU486. Plan B is completely different.

    Plan B floods the body with progesterone so it thinks it’s already pregnant, thereby stopping ovulation and preventing fertilization. It’s only effective if fertilization has not taken place.

    RU486 blocks progesterone receptors, making the body think it’s no longer pregnant, which then causes the fetus to flush. It’s only effective if a woman *is* pregnant.

    From a hormonal view, they therefore essentially work completely opposite to one another.

    I’m done replying to you. You’re not even reading what I’m saying and/or using Google to understand why you’re patently incorrect in what you’re talking about.

    Again, one last time: Plan B is NOT Mifepristone (RU486). The ACA does *not* require insurance to cover RU486, and it’s not even mentioned in Hobby Lobby’s lawsuit.

    Here. Here’s Hobby Lobby’s lawsuit. Go ahead and see if you can find Mifepristone, RU486, or RU-486 in it. What you *will* find mentioned in it is Plan B, and Hobby Lobby’s (incorrect) insistence that it’s an Abortifacient. http://www.becketfund.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Hobby-Lobby-Complaint-stamped.pdf

    So, hey, for what it’s worth, take pride in the fact that Hobby Lobby doesn’t understand the difference between these drugs any better than you do.

  466. mannannie // April 7, 2014 at 10:29 pm //

    It is hypocrisy, plain and simple.

  467. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 1:19 am //

    Plan B, Ella and IUDs. They do not prevent ovulation, they prevent the egg (and fertilized egg) from implanting into the uterine lining. They are abortifacents!

  468. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 1:44 am //

    corporation (ˌkɔːpəˈreɪʃən)
    n
    1. (Law) a group of people authorized by law to act as a legal personality and having its PEOPLE own powers, duties, and liabilities
    2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Also called: municipal corporation the municipal authorities of a city or town
    3. a group of PEOPLE acting as one body

  469. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 1:49 am //

    I won’t even justify your sadist comment. We pray for justice for all rape victims. Please acknowledge and remember that the baby is from the woman too! Why don’t you google “children not aborted after conceived by rape”? See what incredible, loving people they are. They deserve life as much as anyone else. They did NOTHING to deserve a death sentence which it sounds like you would happily inflict on them.

  470. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 1:52 am //

    Then why have they given so many exemptions to certain organizations already if they are all subject to the “the law is equal to all parties”???

  471. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 1:53 am //

    Come up with something better than these liberal sources.

  472. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:04 am //

    Where does it say a law cannot “unduly favor one religion over another”?

  473. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:10 am //

    Just like in the Case of Prop 8 where it was legally voted in but activist judges have made their own rules?

  474. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:12 am //

    They cannot guarantee that 100% of the time. So if one time the egg is fertilized and cannot implant in the uterine lining then it is aborted.

  475. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:15 am //

    Thank you, truth is spoken to a misguided or willfully devious person.

  476. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:18 am //

    @nogeeksadmin:disqus they cannot guarantee with 100% certainty that it will ONLY prevent eggs from being released. There is a chance with a fertilized egg being prevented from implantation. That would qualify as an abortion.

  477. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:21 am //

    but not dignity. No name calling is necessary.

  478. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:27 am //

    They are not dictating a medical decision for a woman. They are saying they will not help pay for certain abortifacient drugs through their company. A woman can pay for that on her own or maybe convince the boyfriend or whomever to pay for it. HL wants a clear conscience and will not support murder.

  479. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:29 am //

    corporation (ˌkɔːpəˈreɪʃən)
    n
    1. (Law) a group of PEOPLE authorized by law to act as a legal personality and having its own powers, duties, and liabilities
    2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Also called: municipal corporation the municipal authorities of a city or town
    3. a group of PEOPLE acting as one body

  480. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:55 am //

    Please quit posting this redundantly! No matter how many times you post it, does not make it a fact. You know it’s not 100%, so that makes it an issue.

  481. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:57 am //

    The utter hypocrisy is that the people of China need jobs and maybe HL is helping to pay moms and dads to work who have their “one” child. The government of China is the evil one forcing their “one” child beliefs on their people…hmmm, sound familiar (ACA???)!!

  482. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 2:58 am //

    Please, the cursing is really unnecessary and is immature.

  483. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:02 am //

    Santa Clara County v.. Southern Pac. R. Co. 118 U.S. 394 (1886)
    the U.S. Supreme Court decided that a private corporation is a person and entitled to the legal rights and protections the Constitutions affords to any person.

  484. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:04 am //

    Maybe you didn’t know this. See:
    Santa Clara County v.. Southern Pac. R. Co. 118 U.S. 394 (1886)
    the U.S. Supreme Court decided that a private corporation is a person and entitled to the legal rights and protections the Constitutions affords to any person.

  485. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:06 am //

    It is not his feelings. It is his core values – his deeply held religious beliefs that have him going to court to get justice. His 1st Amendment rights are the issue.

  486. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:09 am //

    Anyone can get FREE birth control or drastically reduced in the USA (like $12 for a year of birth control pills or FREE condoms) from Planned Abortion, uh, Planned Parenthood. No company should have to support that and cost is not the issue!

  487. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:13 am //

    Come on where are all the “ups” on this comment???

  488. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:15 am //

    Where is your proof of “forced Bible readings”???

  489. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:21 am //

    Unions and outside interests by far contribute the majority to democrats. http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?Ind=P

  490. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:24 am //

    Post all their testimonies of joy here…we will be waiting, probably for eternity.

  491. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:25 am //

    40 years, do the math.

  492. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:27 am //

    Of course, it’s all Bush’ fault!

  493. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:29 am //

    Maybe, it was not disclosed fully to HL? Please show the evidence you have on this. Files, attachments, links…

  494. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:33 am //

    If a person has a penis, I do not want them in the same bathroom as my daughter just because they feel it is “right and safe” for them! People who aren’t sure which bathroom to use do have not have a right to use one that my minor daughter is using.

  495. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 3:33 am //

    Did I say that? There is a segment of people who just plain hate anything proposed by Barak Obama. I don’t exactly know why but they just plain hate him. If he took the Republican party talking point and supported every one of them these people would suddenly find something evil about them.

  496. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:35 am //

    So by Hobby Lobby doing business with a factory owner and its workers — it is endorsing abortion???

  497. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:41 am //

    @mazzyblack:disqus
    Define of
    əv/
    preposition
    expressing the relationship between a part and a whole.
    indicating an association between two entities, typically one of belonging.

    used to indicate derivation, origin, or source
    used to indicate cause, motive, occasion, or reason

    – please show us where the “FROM” is a part of “OF”????

  498. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:42 am //

    but you are telling those of faith how to live at you see fit. Who deemed you judge and jury?

  499. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 3:43 am //

    it is not free if she had a co-pay, or if she pays part of her premium. It is “covered” there is a difference. Why is no one concerned about insurance covering Viagra – it is not medically necessary to facilitate erections — it is for convince and pleasure only.

  500. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 3:44 am //

    oh exactly ! Bravo !

  501. Texas ParentsCare // April 8, 2014 at 3:45 am //

    actually Obamacare will be absorbing the insurance companies. They will be going away as he “transforms our health care”. Watch and see.

  502. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 3:45 am //

    see above post by ROFLAMOY

  503. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 3:50 am //

    1) if they pay a part of their premium, or have a co-pay they pay for it.

    2) in the case in question it is not the government paying for anything it is an insurance company.

    3) Do you feel just as strongly that viagra “thwarts the body’s natural process” since it artificially sustains and erection?

  504. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 3:55 am //

    So if a corporation owned by Jehovah’s witnesses could refuse blood transfusions or Christian Scientists could refuse to have any heath insurance at all because it “goes against their beliefs” ???????

  505. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 4:02 am //

    1) he doesn’t need to he is covered by his employer. ACA was designed primarily to cover people who were unable to get insurance under the old rules. 2) The ACA changed some of the requirements of basic health care insurance policies – which is what all the fuss is about. 3) Obamacare doesn’t actually exist. there is not government insurance – the ACA provides rules to allow greater access to policies from established companies

  506. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 4:04 am //

    Tell it sister! I am so sorry for you situation, I pray you persevere

  507. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 4:05 am //

    I don’t know where you get you info………….the millions who could not get insurance were using the ER and were unable to pay so the cost had to be absorbed by all of us… this will ultimately be better — for all of us.

  508. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 4:08 am //

    they don’t understand that they do not pay for anything .. they pay a portion of the premium……the insurance company pays for covered expenses

  509. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 4:12 am //

    how? They don’t have to use contraceptives. They also don’t actually pay for them … they pay for insurance, the insurance covers things women are prescribed by their doctors. Where is the outrage over Viagra? AND it seems that a couple of years ago Hobby Lobby’s insurance plan DID cover the very things they are screaming about now…………………

  510. PhoenixM // April 8, 2014 at 7:58 am //

    Did you see the insult I was responding to? “PhoenixM I’m guessing that you are one of the Obamaites that thinks
    everybody owes you something and are mooching off of the working class
    that is suffering due to the supossed Affordable
    Care Act.”

    Moocher? I make nice money, and I’m incredibly generous with it. But somebody who doesn’t even know me is going to decide that I must fit in with his/her twisted world view that sees all Americans as either “givers” or “takers”, and that these labels somehow align with political affiliation. I found that incredibly insulting, and responded in kind.

  511. PhoenixM // April 8, 2014 at 8:02 am //

    The company that “will not support murder” buys most of its products from China.

    You know, the country that, in the past few decades, has pretty much *forced* abortion on probably hundreds of millions of women:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/11/15/why-chinas-one-child-policy-still-leads-to-forced-abortions-and-always-will/

  512. PhoenixM // April 8, 2014 at 8:06 am //

    I post it in reply to different people who refuse to read up on what they’re talking about. Why do I have to keep explaining to people (sometime the same people, again and again) that Plan B is not an abortifacient? Since you seem to have gone through the trouble of reading every single comment I’ve posted on here, I’m sure you’ve seen my current argument with a guy named Dave, who absolutely refuses to believe that Plan B and RU-486 are different drugs.

  513. PhoenixM // April 8, 2014 at 8:13 am //

    And according to the U.S. Supreme Court in Roe vs. Wade, Abortion is cool.

    So do you support that ruling too?

    And actually, the notion of whether/not a private corporation is entitled to the *religious* rights and protections of a person is what’s currently being debated by the Supreme Court, so it’s not as if it’s a settled issue anyway. It’s actually the keystone of the entire legal argument in the instant case.

    A corporation doesn’t have a soul. A corporation doesn’t pray. A corporation can’t go to eternal paradise or damnation. We (the U.S.) have actually gone down a pretty dumb road (from a legislative/judicial point of view) in supporting the notion that a corporation is a person, and this Hobby Lobby case might very well be where the line is drawn.

  514. PhoenixM // April 8, 2014 at 8:20 am //

    Their lack of a “guarantee” is essentially used as a disclaimer, and not as a scientific conclusion. If you read their references to the studies regarding that question in the previous question, you see that there was not a lower rate of pregnancy among those women who took Plan B after ovulation versus those who didn’t take Plan B at all.

    In other words, yes, the uterine lining is thinner, but the data does not suggest that this actually does affect implantation.

  515. ROFLMAOAY // April 8, 2014 at 12:30 pm //

    Wow, I knew there was a high level of ignorance throughout the state of Texas, but you’ve done a fine job showing just how high it goes.

    Hobby Lobby imports billions of dollars of products from China. It doesn’t provide jobs or “help” Chinese workers. It writes a check to companies who provide the crap they import and sell in their stores!

    China is a communist nation, and doesn’t allow its people to have the freedom to worship freely. Christians are persecuted in China. There were 134 cases of persecution reported just last year and hundreds of cases go unreported because of fear of reprisal.

    Although the one child policy was technically lifted, abandonment as selective killing of female babies continues. Forced abortion, although technically frowned upon by the government, is still a regular practice in China. Is the disruption of creation of life only relevant as a Christian when it’s an American life?

    And what about the factories those people work at in China, those factories that make the products Hobby Lobby buys and then sells. The people of China who work in factories are exposed to a variety of dangerous working conditions. They are victims of unfair calculations ofwork time and low wages. Their employers often fail to pay for insurance or pay for injuries that are work related.

    And how about the children of China? Child abuse is on the rise, and no one in the government is doing a thing about it.

    If the government of China is “evil” as you say, why in the world would a corporation that touts their Christian beliefs choose to engage in commerce with it?

    Hobby Lobby has state: “We’re Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I’ve always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God’s laws, and (2) to focus on people more
    than money.”

    If they wanted to focus on “people more than money”, then they could easily purchase billions of dollars in goods from US Supplier’s or countries that didn’t participate in government forced abortion or persecution of the Christian faith, but no!! That’s not how corporations work. It all comes down to the mighty dollar not religious beliefs, which is at the crux of this case. Religious belief is simply the excuse Hobby Lobby is using to avoid the cost incurred.

    Corporate greed that relies on hypocrisy That’s what it is, nothing more. Nothing less..

  516. They pay more than the employee, even if it was 50% then then help pay for those contraceptives. The employee pays for their share, H L pays for every employee. No little amount.

  517. They pay a lot more than the employees and they are paying for hundreds of them. They are paying for the insurance that means they are paying for those contraceptives.

  518. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 3:46 pm //

    So if I had a company and I decided not to cover Viagra because I sincerely believe that it is God’s plan for men to stop having erections at a certain age, or blood transfusions because my religion interprets the bible to mean they are against God’s will …………..you would be fine with that? The point is people can practice their faith but can’t use “religion” to punish others for not believing the same as they do.

  519. Brad Wags // April 8, 2014 at 7:48 pm //

    Well I don’t see it that way, and I think the article explains why it’s not. But even if it really was, who cares? They’re allowed to do whatever they wish with their money. They have that right. I take it you do not work for them, so why do you give a darn?

  520. Brad Wags // April 8, 2014 at 7:51 pm //

    Isn’t it interesting that many who don’t think Hobby Lobby can have corporate convictions now think Mozilla can???

  521. Brad Wags // April 8, 2014 at 7:52 pm //

    Why is it ok for Mozilla to have ‘corporate convictions’, but not Hobby Lobby???

  522. No one is punishing any one here. The women still can receive contraceptives. So that is a moot, the others are too because they have no bearing on H L.

  523. KW Crosby // April 8, 2014 at 9:30 pm //

    How pompous can you get? I said only a sadist would FORCE a rape victim to carry that pregnancy to term. It’s monstrous if she THINKS IT IS. Have you talked to women who have chosen to abort because of rape? Just because some women can get over that doesn’t mean anyone can.

  524. KW Crosby // April 8, 2014 at 9:41 pm //

    Oh please. OBVIOUSLY I was not talking about those definitions of the word corporation. Maybe you should check a real dictionary:
    (Merriam-Webster): a large business or organization that under the law has the rights and duties of an individual and follows a specific purpose
    “…the corporation has several characteristics that
    make it a more flexible instrument for large-scale economic activity.
    Chief among these are limited liability,”
    The ability of a corporation to act as if it is an individual is what makes it separate from the people who founded it and run it. The limited liability is the REASON people form corporations.

  525. KW Crosby // April 8, 2014 at 9:50 pm //

    An abortifacient is something that interrupts an established pregnancy. None of those do that. Plan B and Ella work mainly to prevent ovulation, but if taken after ovulation they can act to prevent implantation into the uterine lining. A fertilized egg is not an established pregnancy if it does not implant into the uterine lining. You can pretend that every fertilized egg is magically a baby, but you are lying to yourself and to the people who look to you for information. At least half of all fertilized eggs pass out of the woman’s body naturally. If you are right, then she is a murderer. I presume you see how absurd that is. A fertilized egg is not a pregnancy.

  526. Sue Roediger // April 8, 2014 at 10:07 pm //

    well it would have bearing because a ruling in favor of HL would set a precedent allowing business owners to similarly control employee’s options. If a treatment option is legal, and deemed medically appropriate by a person’s doctor……. an employer should have no voice about it, Insurance companies cover customary medical procedures and medications…. What if this was the other way around … what if an atheist, on no religious employer insisted that every female employee take birth control because he didn’t want to loose productivity by them getting pregnant? Absurd? YES of course. Hobby Lobby’s position is just as absurd.

  527. Your and everyone else argument is moot because they are not denying any one anything. I have not seen anywhere that the 4 that H L doesn’t want are used to save any ones life. They are not any better than the others. They could have said no We will take the penalty. Would that help the women employees. Maybe they will if they lose. That would be a sad thing but might be the right thing to do. What really gripes me not one of you griping are working for them. Just feminist haters.

  528. Sue Roediger // April 9, 2014 at 12:23 am //

    Sounds like you think only people who work there can have an opinion……………..I am guessing you don’t work there either.
    The point is not the drugs in contention.it is the principle of an employer having a say in someone’s medical decisions.

  529. No the the problem is the government telling H L it must pay for abortion contraceptives. The women are getting all they need.

  530. Sue Roediger // April 9, 2014 at 3:10 pm //

    I think you would feel differently if there was something your doctor ordered and your boss wouldn’t cover it.

  531. Brad Wags // April 9, 2014 at 3:44 pm //

    I guess you could say both are hypocritical then. What difference does it really make at this point???

  532. Brad Wags // April 9, 2014 at 3:49 pm //

    Isn’t it interesting that many who don’t think Hobby Lobby can have corporate convictions now think Mozilla can??? Now THAT is hypocrisy!

  533. Angela Dansie // April 9, 2014 at 5:07 pm //

    Tell Brenda to come up with soemthing other than right wingy-dingy sites

  534. Danny Hurt // April 9, 2014 at 7:36 pm //

    Obama voters are ridiculous

  535. mannannie // April 9, 2014 at 11:20 pm //

    Hasn’t the CEO resigned?

  536. Matthew Anliker // April 10, 2014 at 12:19 am //

    They have given exemptions to religious organizations that run hospitals (which in my mind they shouldn’t do either). HL is not a religious organization.

  537. Matthew Anliker // April 10, 2014 at 12:22 am //

    This is very tiresome, It is how the amendment has been interpreted over the years by the courts.

  538. Matthew Anliker // April 10, 2014 at 12:24 am //

    Why are they liberal because they have sources? Politifact called the “you can keep your insurance if you want to” a pants on fire lie. Incorrectly, but none the less. Just because it proves you wrong doesn’t make it liberal.

  539. YUP….their business and if they’re the ones paying for the healthcare then yes they have a right to omit what their religion doesn’t agree with. YOU have every right to say no thanks to the job OR to go find a job with healthcare that suits your needs….It’s called freedom. We are NOT a Socialist country and the government does not belong in our healthcare.

  540. Brad Wags // April 10, 2014 at 9:17 am //

    Yes…. and why did he resign?

  541. Don’t tell me I don’t have the basic understanding, I have a laarge family and I know all too well what Obamacare is all about. It’s not about health it’s about control. The government sticking their nose in peoples business once again and screwing it up for millions. My kids are in their early 20’s and when I had insurance when they were growing up I PAID for their vaccinations, I also paid for my own contraception. Contraception is not preventative health care the way a mammogram or pap smear is, the latter 2 are life saving….contraception is not. Many of the standards set by the ACA are questionable and have cost people jobs, sent the prices in many states too high for middle class or young adults to afford….Companies without 50 employees last I heard don’t even have to pay a dime…so how is that fair to THEIR employees. Some things just don’t belong in EVERYONES healthcare policy…..Why should someone in their 60’s pay for contraception as part of their healthcare when they obviously don’t need it. No person in a FREE AMERICA should have to buy a policy they don’t want. King Obamas standards need to be reformed, or repealed and Healthcare that REALLY takes care of everyone should be the priority.

  542. They are not denied anything. They still have 16 to choose from. The 4 are more dangerous to a woman than most. The IUID’S can cause severe uterine damage. The 16 are safer.

  543. The employer also has the right to challenge a law that he feels unfair or unjust.

  544. They aren’t breaking the law they’re challenging the law, thats what court is all about. They’re well within their rights. Just because a law is made doesn’t always mean it’s right or just. Plenty of laws have change throughout the years. Obama broke his own law many times….but that’s ok?

  545. Sue Roediger // April 10, 2014 at 3:15 pm //

    well, you are entitled to you opinion, but it is not accurate. Your boss doesn’t get to make you live by his religion.

  546. Sue Roediger // April 10, 2014 at 3:18 pm //

    but that is a decision for a woman and her doctor to make, not the boss.

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